#93

I’ve never really interpreted Fight Club as a far right thing. Obviously Norton is massively privileged but he’s still ultimately alienated by capitalism and the toxic environment it reproduces, and his dissociative states and political extremism is a reaction to that.

#94

Fight Club’s messages have absolutely been appropriated by far-right groups though. Outsider groups that celebrate masculinity and fight back against systems they deem to have oppressed them is a textbook part of fascism.

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#95

New Girl was good but Happy Endings was better

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#96

Winston’s pranks :heart:

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#97

Yeah, I can see that.

Which is a shame, as I think there is a lot of valuable stuff to explore in the toxic ideas of masculinity and capitalism that I think Fight Club broadly does quite well.

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#98

Speaking of Fight Club anyone remember when DiS reviewed that Chuck Palahniuk book in I dunno 2008 or something? Made a big splash about it at the time. I don’t remember seeing a book review on here before or since tbh.

#99

Too cool to have ever watched this. Cheers guys.

#100

Impressive!

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#101

It is a shame it doesnt explore it better, think its problem is it mixes in some vaid criticisms with some unhealthy attitudes, and doesnt do enough to really disentagle and comment on them. Men feeling alienated is fine (though obviously the focus on just men, particularly an office worker who really has it better than most is a bit off), attributing it to capitalist society is fine. But it doesnt just do that, part of the men’s problem in it is also their percieved emasculation, which they resist through embracing ‘traditional’ masulinity through violence, in a men only setting. It doesnt blame women for this more just modern consumerist society, but you can understand how weird men who blame feminism for their problems could see that in the film. I guess also the treatment of Marla reflects the attitudes to women of the characters, I dont think it intends to endorese those attitudes, arguably the whole point of the film is that he shouldnt have been trying to live out some ridiculous male violent fantasy but should have connected with marla but went the wrong way every time, but as his initial disatisfaction with the world is kind of valid it kind of tacitly endoreses him generally.

They cross the line when they start blowing things up and meatloaf dies. I think at that point it is trying to say this group is bad, they saw problems in the world but have gone about a solution which is also bad, but while earlier in the film their embrace of traditional masculinity is celebrated, when it goes wrong it doesnt seem to link it to that, that these silly men’s violent fantasies have got way out of hand as a direct result of these weird attitudes and values, it seems to be more about his mental decline. then when the buildings blow up at the end and give his movement a surprisng win, it is a weird happy ending moment which really does muddle what it is trying to say.

I know the term snowflake has been co-opted and gone through meaning changes since, but there is still something very Jordan Peterson about it in the film.

in conclusion, fight club has some good stuff, has some bad stuff, easy to see how people see even worse stuff

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#102

Yeah this is very good. It’s been a long time since I watched it, perhaps I should so again with a more critical eye.

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#103

Genuine question rather than an attempt to troll or anything cos I can’t remember the film that well, but what are the things JGL’s character did that made people see him as such a dick? Is it the fact he gets so mad with Summer for not wanting a relationship even though she never wanted one? I definitely used to think he was on the right side of that argument oooops.

I really, really liked it when I watched it cos I was an impressionable teenager and it all seemed really quirky and cool. Definitely remember hoping I’d meet someone like Summer (whatever the fuck that even meant). Suspect I wouldn’t like it as much if I watched it again, but I think it was pretty good for what it was trying to be.

#104

He’s generally a bit misanthropic (casually throwing around the word bitch and skank), and only interested in Summer superficially (the fact she likes the Smiths etc - anytime she disagrees on something, he purposefully ignores it rather than tries to find out more about her). And yeah, ultimately he acts as though she deceived him even though she maintained that she didn’t a serious relationship with him (though as mentioned above, you can could question whether there are differences in what she says and how she acts). I don’t think he’s a massive dick, just shortsighted and immature, and he learns from it at the end.

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#105

I haven’t seen it for years either (think I need to re-watch it based on this thread) but I remember him as a guy who was seemed to be unhappy with parts of his personal and professional life, but wasn’t really doing much to fix these and therefore his self-worth and esteem was entirely wrapped up in what he perceived as his relationship. This led him to be insecure, jealous and sometimes selfish, and to project these feelings onto Summer, even though she had always told him that she didn’t want a full on relationship.

Didn’t really see his behaviour as reprehensible or ‘toxic’ as others seem to – he basically just needed to grow up quite a bit – but can probably say that about a fair few blokes in their 20s tbh. My recollection is that he does seem to have learned a bit by the end of the film too. When he meets Summer for the final time on the bench and tells her that he really hopes that she’s happy in her marriage, I thought that this was genuine and showed his increased emotional maturity, but I could have this wrong I guess.

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#106

The best reading of it I’ve seen so far. I don’t think her actions and words line up entirely (because whose does? This isn’t some major character flaw), but she does keep saying the same things and he chooses to only focus on the actions that fit what he wants to ese and not any of the other signals.

I’d say he liked her more than just superficially though, I’m not sure you could keep up an 18 month relationship, when you’re that kind of needy romantic, without liking more than just surface level things.

#107

I love her smile, I love her hair, I love her teeth. I love this heart-shaped birthmark she has on her neck. I love the way she sometimes, licks her lips before she talks. I love the sound of her laugh.

#108

Gonna rewatch it anyway so expect a rebuttal/agreement within the next few months!

#109

my friend met chuck palahuniuk when he came into the shop she was working in. somehow she recognised him and told him she was a huge fan and he was lovely and stuff, but then he came back with a load of books that he’d signed for her. thats all ive got about him, fuck knows how she knew what he looked like tbh

#110

i guess theyve got the instantgrams these days havent they

#111

Agree – think he was massively into her. Saw things like

More as a sign of his insecurity, like, he didn’t want to admit that there were things that might disagree on because he didn’t want to rock the boat. Also saw

as a sign of his infatuation rather than him being superficial.

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#112

I know he’s bald and rakishly thin. That’s about it.