A New Running Thread for 2016

I read somewhere that most people do their slow runs too fast and their fast runs too slow. I’m definitely guilty of this. Should probably do more proper ‘recovery’ stuff and then absolutely gas harder runs.

i’ve read into the MAF stuff now - can’t be fucked doing that all that time - but maybe once a week on a long run

and then proper pelt in on my short run

:grinning:

If I’ve read it right, Maffetone seems to imply that any activity above his Low Heart Rate threshold will undermine the efforts of his methods. Well, for most people that’s just impractical. Playing football, for example, would lift you above LHR, easily.

I dunno, it all sounds a bit too much like quackery, or at least, something that’s only really applicable to people who only do running, and minimal other activities for me.

yeah, he can go fuck himself

I thought it was above the aerobic threshold for more than a couple of minutes but reading that link nickolai posted that was refereing to something different. Also in that link I like how he goes on about the 220 minus age has no scientific basis…and then just plucks this 180 formula out of thin air!

I like colinzeal’s formula that’s actually based on a percentage of your max and resting heart rates. At least that’s specific to an individual’s body, but then there’s still the question of where does the 70% come from?

Right… mega post coming up. Apologies for length.

Re HRMs; I swear by a strap when I use mine. It was uncomfortable at first, but my understanding is that even with wrist based monitors improving they’re still less accurate/prone to unusual spikes. Your mileage may vary though.

This is definitely true and one of the big benefits of training to Heart Rate. Humans are poor judges of how hard we exercise in “easy” or “recovery” sessions (and don’t like doing recovery sessions anyway), but your heart rate measures the effort pretty accurately. With that said, it’s not much of a problem for more casual runners who have a clear day’s rest between sessions, it’s only really a big problem when you do back-to-back runs.

Re MAF - I’ve read up on this overnight and it seems what I was doing a few years back wasn’t strictly MAF, but a different form of HRM training that shares similarities.

MAF basically appears to say, run at your aerobic threshold and no faster in all training (hence no plans - you’re not throwing intervals and suchlike in, every run is similar in pace/style, only distance may vary). That way you can build up huge volumes of mileage and adjust quite easily without stressing the body too much. Over time your body gets better at running at your aerobic threshold and you gradually get faster naturally without doing the intervals, fartlek and speed runs that most runners associate with improving pace and strength.

What I did (and still broadly do, but I don’t necessary use my HRM all the time) was to pick 3 key sessions a week that would have a specific aim (usually Long Run, Intervals and Tempo) and then fill in around those with recovery runs more or less every other day. Each session then I’d go in with an idea of where my Heart Rate should be tracking based on the formula above.

For recovery runs, I set an alarm to go off if my HR went above 70% of my Working Heart Rate and keep the HR screen on my watch rather than distance or pace. If the alarm goes off, then I walk until it stops. It leads to some uncomfortable runs at first (it’s surprisingly hard to go slow enough to keep your HR down initially as your body isn’t used to working in the aerobic zone). When I started doing this, my recovery runs would be around 9:15 minute miles, but in the end I was able to run more miles, feel less tired and even the recovery runs would be around 1:45 minutes a mile faster. I also hit practically every PB I’ve got when training like that.

The HR can be handy for other sessions too if only to keep an eye for unusually high heart rates - if my HR goes to max on the first interval of a track session, it’s a sign that I need to crack that session on the head and go rest instead. Likewise on a long run - you get used to what’s normal - if it crept above 80-85% too early then I’d look to find a way home rather than flog myself to death.

For anyone who wants to give HRM training a go and who doesn’t fancy going full MAF, this book is basically my bible on it - Amazon.co.uk - it’s got a few plans in there for those who like that kind of thing, but rather than follow those religiously I found it useful to read and understand all the principles behind those and then apply them to my own goals instead.

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Useful stuff, ta.

I guess the key to using those kind of methods is to appreciate that effort/intensity is best reflected in your heart rate, rather than your pace or your distance covered.

It would take some getting used to - it’s pretty much inevitable that you’d run positive splits in training, some of them quite dramatic.

What level would you do your long runs at?

i am interested in this for long runs as well - i think this is where i might go too fast sometimes

An average of around 75% of WHR, although that would hide a multitude of sins (it’d typically peak at around 85%)

WHR = working heart rate, yes?

That’s usually the zone of 50-80% of maximum heart rate, I think.

So is 75% of WHR equivalent to 72.5% maximum heart rate?

here you go!

http://www.runningforfitness.org/calc/heart-rate-calculators/hrzone?minHR=48&maxHR=187&Submit=Calculate

actually - fuck knows if that is right?

This is right, yes.

WHR is Working Heart Rate and calculated as the range between your resting heart rate (typically around 45-60 for most in this thread) and your Max HR (for me 198, reached at the end of an intervals session last year)

The key “zones” for my runs are <70% for recovery, 70-80% for Long runs and 85-100% for intervals. Tempo runs and hill sessions I’ve always done by feel rather than measured HR.Your mileage may vary with what works best for you though and it is important to get an accurate Max HR to work from.

how do you get a max hr? i think mine should be accurate - but in strava my pace and hear rate analysis never seems to match up? not that that matters really


This runs down the different ways of calculating it from formulas, and also includes a link to a method of measuring it properly using a stress test

Also, you said that your average resting heart rate was 47.

That’s sounds (admirably) low. That doesn’t include when you’re asleep, does it? Resting heart rate isn’t the same as minimum heart rate, which will be achieved when you’re sleeping.

i don’t know how it tracks it really - right now it says 46, but i have no idea if it’s accurate, i don’t have anything else to compare it with!

Yes, this. The calculations can give you a rough guide, but only a stress test can do it properly.

For the record, I did something similar-ish to the second test, although using 400m reps with only 100m recovery.

All this HR talk’s reminded me, I really need to get the battery changed in my strap and get using it again.

it seems a bit too low to me tbh

juat read up on the stress test - think i would die doing that