#141

Had a Dad like that at my NCT class who’d had a boy. Such a weird thing to think about, especially as they were a year old at the time.

1 Like
#142

That’s very young to be a dad, are you sure the kid was his?

6 Likes
#143

I’ve been thinking ^this for a long time, and agree completely, but breaking through the cognitive dissonance between thinking “I’m a nice guy”, and “that person did a bad thing and is bad” when it’s something that you or a friend has done, is something that a lot of men struggle with reconciling. Mostly they just don’t bother.

I always thought of myself as A Good Guy, but had a situation where I was definitely being Not A Good Guy with a friend’s housemate. I managed to realise before things got really terrible, and in practice I didn’t do anything as bad as what’s been said by L, I was mainly just being weird, but realising how I was behaving made me really think about how I act around women.

I had therapy (triggered by this, as it was very much out of character behaviour for me), which helped, and think I’m “better” now, and working in a relatively female dominated industry has changed how I view these sort of issues as well, but I shudder to think how relatively unremarkable my actions were/are within the context of men in general. I also horribly regret the way I behaved, and have apologised to said person, and she accepted that apology, but I think I’ll always feel deeply sorry about the whole thing.

I kinda regret writing this post as it’s fairly onanistic, but that sentence by @colinzealuk really resonated with me… also it’s written on phone so sorry if it’s just word salad.

6 Likes
#145

The bar is set so low for men to be seen as champions of equality and woke-ness.

I think it’s important for any man trying to better themselves to consider the following:

  • Constantly question your actions and beliefs. If you don’t agree with someone else, why not? How have your experiences differed in comparison to that person? Ask, have steps been made to increase safety of people who aren’t men? If not, why not? If the room doesn’t include women, or has disproportionately more men, why is that the case?
  • Make as much effort as possible to empathise with others and see things from another person’s viewpoint. E.g if there’s a meeting at work, 4 men and 1 woman, and the 4 disagree with that 1 and don’t ask that person to clarify their points, how would that make you feel?
  • Challenge other men when they talk phobic or misogynist shite. This is difficult to do, but often a “why is that funny?” is a good ball to start things rolling. Don’t humour the idiots
  • Know when to be silent. Men are all too often guilty of thinking their opinions are important, because society has incorrectly taught them that is the case. It isn’t. If there’s a topic in which the non-men are talking, listen. Actually listen. Make mental notes. Don’t echo comments for the sake of it, don’t talk over people in an effort to make it clear how incredibly woke you are. If that conversational topic comes up again, don’t regurgitate the opinions of others as though you were the one to come up with it. If someone else said something smart, direct the praise their way
  • Don’t accept praise for doing the bare fucking minimum. Sharing a facebook post about the importance of equal pay is the bare fucking minimum. Talking in a group about how it’s unfair If people try and give you praise for that, politely refute the importance of that, and say that all you’ve done is the bare minimum, because the actions mean so much more and there’s a lot of work to do

Bit of a rant sorry. Unfortunately all of the above are behaviours that can be learned/imitated by men who intend to abuse. How to get round that I’m not sure. As in, how to know how genuine someone is. Been thinking about that a lot with the Hookworms stuff. I don’t know the answer

9 Likes
#146

Anyone ready this?

#147

I have :+1:

It’s fairly brief - feels almost more like an extended essay dotted with some amusing cartoons by yer man Perry. Could probably rip through it in a single session if you were so inclined. Good though - thought provoking/behaviour examining stuff even if I didn’t agree with absolutely everything he says…

2 Likes
#148

This is pretty trivial compared to everything else that’s being discuss here, but I had this debit card for a few months earlier in the year:

image
image.jpg1125×1088 96.8 KB

and honestly, the reactions from some men I know were so hilariously fragile-masculine that it made me want to keep the thing on principle.

#149

Cheers. Seems perfect for a little intro into the subject which is what i’m after - before digging deeper.

1 Like
#150

Started a new job…fairly abundant presence of dodgy masculinity on show…but found it hard to go all “you can’t say that” because I’m human/a coward so I’ve tried to be more “why do you think like that?”. Just winds some men up but I guess they’re pretty entrenched in that mindset.

2 Likes
#151

Wonton! Wondered where you’ve been, hope all is well :slight_smile:

3 Likes
#152

I very much think the thread title needs changing. Suggestions welcome :thinking:

Anyway…came here to talk about colleagues. Above, I said this:

So, gradually, I’ve found some other male colleagues who, to varying degrees, appear to eschew the usual macho trappings that stop me from forming friendships (just in the way they interact, and some of their views on male mental health etc). So, last Saturday, we all went out (to celebrate one guy’s promotion), which included a trip to a Video game bar :slightly_smiling_face:. You see, it was a good night…but even with these guys there was still a bit of a dodgy male vibe to some conversations. Instead of sexist jokes and emotion-shaming though…you get talking about Jordan Peterson, Elon Musk and nerd culture (nothing wrong with that on its own). Like, it was still obvious that having one gender there directly affected the direction conversation. It was easier to challenge though, so I did so on some occasions. It just reminded me a but that there isn’t just one dodgy part of masculinity, it’s more complex than that. I still like many of the guys, but I think mixed social events are the way forward.

Hope that makes some sense

Oh and they all liked the band Tool

1 Like
#153

The Guardian commissioned Iman Amrani to put together a few films on modern masculinity. Maybe you’d enjoy watching them

1 Like
#154

Yeah I saw them, they were good and she seemed really into it/fair minded. The barber shop one was my favourite

1 Like
#155

The one on circumcision is good too. Just a shame the protest movement is entangled with virulent antisemitism

1 Like
#156

Big Money Top Lad Banter (no women allowed)

1 Like
#157

Manches-Brute On Being a Macho Brute (Feat. Other, Weaker DiSers)

4 Likes