Any other poor people here?

The idea of aspirational voting is about 200 years old

Which ones?

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more anecdotes less political arguing please!

Please leave the boards.

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When i was going through quite a rough time a few years ago it was access to music, films, books and sport that kept me sane. Those things are important. They may not be essential things, but without them my mental health would have probably deteriorated to the point of no return. Obviously lots of people don’t have food or runinng water, so i’m not saying those things are of equal importance, but you can get into a mindset that because you’re poor you don’t deserve nice things, and that’s pretty horrible and wrong.

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It’s great that you can get them all for free with an internet connection too.

I do a bit of photography which is sort of free, in that if you have a camera already it doesn’t cost any more to go out and take as much as you like. I’ve bought a decent camera and lenses now so that in future if/when i have a family and money is much tighter I already have the stuff, and children make great subjects. I don’t think I’d be able to do it to any kind of standard if it was still film - too difficult and time-consuming to learn, too expensive to keep buying and developing film.

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Absolutely, or at least from charity shops for pennies. It’s easy to fall out of the habit of getting out of the house and doing human things if you’re going through a rough time. I think music’s particulsaly important to keep spirits up.

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Not sure I can call myself poor but I have zero savings and am living month to month. It feels weird to me that once basic things like having a house and being able to support a family are now as much of a pipe dream as being picked to play in the World Cup for England.

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gonna PM you

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I think it’s partly a fashion thing and how attitudes towards things such as the welfare state (for example) have dramatically changed since 2010. I think I might have worded my original post terribly, but yeah basically what I was trying to argue was that in my experience some middle-class people these days try to make out (and actually think) they’re upper-class, just because they’re not working-class.

he/she looks totally enthralled in something!

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Where do you live punko? Not looking to have a dig, just that having grown up in the home counties myself and seen areas get massively richer over time was wondering where you were observing this particular cultural change :+1:

Hair looks a bit matted there m9. Might wanna try some conditioner.

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It’s very telling that for a lot of people the concept of class is nothing more than superficial signifiers like which supermarket you buy food at or where you go on holiday. As @anon30627475 says above, at its heart, class is still absolutely about our relationship to capital. Neoliberalism might have spent decades telling people they were middle class but if you work for a salary but have no stake in the company, don’t own property that quietly generates wealth for you thanks to a housing bubble, or
don’t have a portfolio of investments, then you’re working class, and should get on board with the concept of solidarity and looking out for your class interest.

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afaik Punko has a similarish background to me, is the same age and is also home counties, and I’ve never come across this phenomenon. Not dismissing his experiences but I certainly don’t think it’s a widespread thing.

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Fair enough pervs. That said, he might actually be from somewhere good in the home counties tbh tbf…

:frowning: I only realised after a year of mostly lurking on here how faintly ridiculous it is to grow up in the affluent bits of west Kent. Legitimately thought for years that I was, if not working class, then certainly one of the ‘poorer’ people at my school (grammar school, one of those schools that helps poor kids achieve their potential… Lol jk they’re choked by rich kids with dads who work in the city and didn’t get into private school). Despite my parents paying off their mortgage on a new house in about 2 years.* Mostly because my primary school was huge and had a few ‘rough’ kids (unlike the 100 pupil tiny village primaries most of my classmates went to) and most of my primary school friends ONLY lived in semi-detached houses and I went to Cornwall on my annual summer holiday rather than the Bahamas or Crete or Dubai. The horror!!

DiS would’ve had a field day with me in 2013. Living in an affluent bubble really wrecks your openness to believing in widespread poverty. It’s a totally warped experience of life.

*admittedly my dad lived at home rent free til he was 30, hence saving up massive £££, but still inherently a privilege for your parents to be able to support you in that way.

Yeah I was chewing this over recently re: Right To Buy. I grew up in a village, in a nice sized detached house. My old man had a very good job and we were very comfortably off. The village was a mix of bigger properties like the sort I lived in and what I would call standard council housing. Almost 50/50 pretty much. All the kids went to the same primary school and both circles (kids from well off homes and kids from council houses) mixed at school. There didn’t seem much divide.

Although I do remember it being an eye opener when I made my best friend at aged 8 (still best mates to this day was the best man at my wedding etc.) and went round his house and noticed how different it was to the house I was in. His Dad came home from work while I was round and was confused by the fact he was covered in dirt (he worked on a building site) compared to my Dad who’d come home in a suit. In any case I was alive to the differences between the fact we were rich and they were poor very early on. My parents didn’t give a toss that I was hanging about with a poorer kid (although did bemoan the fact I’d come back from his stinking of fags).

Could waffle on about this but I’m mates with pretty much all the lads I met in that village when I was growing up. Of the 8 of them, 6 grew up in council houses. I go back to the village now and it’s changed beyond all recognition, it’s just a wealthy commuter village for neighbouring towns (even London at a pinch but fuck commuting from there). Much of the council housing has been sold off and many more massive houses have been built. The primary school is one of the most sought after in the area and some village kids aren’t even able to get into it now. It’s purely wealthy kids who go there now. And they don’t mix. When they grow up they don’t go to the village pub (which is dying on its arse) etc. etc. My Mum will go back and see her old mates and they ALL moan to her about how shit the village is and there’s no community any more etc. etc.

I’ve got down here and not sure where I’m going with this ramble, which is probably awful to read so apologies. But I think to a large extent Right To Buy destroyed diversity in villages like the ones I grew up in and these sort of ‘affluent bubbles’ you describe are allowed to emerge. And it’s to our entire collective detriment that this happens.

Oxfordshire, although I’m not sure Oxfordshire is universally considered a home county, it’s technically South East (not geographically really) but apparently not quite as affluent as other places much nearer London.

As far as I know there aren’t many private schools in Oxfordshire either (not outside Oxford), the only school in my area is a fairly bog standard comp, which might explain why everyone is quite laid back towards education, including the fair amount of people who are very comfortable and live in big houses*, because that’s all there is. Although the percentage of people who end up going to university is fairly high, there aren’t exactly many posh swat stereotypes hellbent on going to Oxbridge either, not compared to other places in the South East (that’s what I meant when I said it’s not a particularly affluent area despite being middle-class but ‘affluent’ is the wrong word, I should’ve said it’s not particularly aspirational despite being middle-class).

Obviously some people were like that but they were pretty outnumbered, so nobody really acted it (so in that sense it was a good area). But now it seems to be the other way round to an extent and people do act it.

*I’m not talking about actual mansions though

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