#21

I think part of the relative power of sentiment against plastic is how visual it is, in terms of both land and sea pollution. It is an unambiguous reality that any person can easily see - you don’t need to understand any arguments or data.

But yes, agree that it can be dangled to obscure the lack of real change.

3 Likes
#22

I’ve recently started using these laundry tabs that get sent to your house in a cardboard box. No plastic waste. They’re pretty decent. You can get a trial box of 9 for £1.

I used to refill a bottle at a local place, but they changed the brand of laundry stuff and I didn’t like it.

2 Likes
#23

Oh yes, it’s very tangible, which makes it an easy win.

While the 00s weren’t great for progress, the 2010s have been treading water. In construction, for example, pretty much all the planned legislative measures (eg a ramping up of energy use standards, better standards on responsible sourcing of materials, better provision for active travel) were scrapped.

These are the kind of things that require a lengthy lead-in time of up to a decade to implement, so little is going to happen this side of 2030 now, and they’re the kind of intangible things that make the biggest difference.

(apart from guillotining everyone with a private jet)

#24

I have a similar feeling about the fuss over disposable coffee cups. I’ve always suspected that the part of a takeaway cup of coffee that’s worst for the environment is the coffee, but people won’t consider reducing their coffee intake (and I’m guessing that your MIL didn’t consider that the chicken might have been worse for the environment than the packaging). And if you buy one reusable cup and use it every day that’s great, but if you’ve got 7 metal or ceramic ones at home gathering dust you might have been better off sticking with disposables.

Regarding plastic packaging, it’s not easy for people to see the benefits but packaging usually has a purpose. Plastic wrap on cucumbers is a good example, because people think it’s wasteful but it significantly lengthens the life of the product, reducing food waste. But people see the plastic in their bin, they don’t see all the resources that went into producing a cucumber that ended up not getting eaten because it went off before anyone bought it.

4 Likes
#25

How are we defining ethical? Just straight up no killing animals? Or humane consumption of animals? or ethical in terms of pollution/carbon footprint/land use

We’re never going to be in a world where everyone lives happily without meat so striving for more sustainable and kind farming practices should be the way we are heading. We’ve been through minor phases of it. Most people will not buy caged chickens or caged eggs, that’s an ethical choice. It’s not really any more or less ethical than not eating eggs at all.

I am just reluctant to label anyone vegan or vegetarian as more ethical as it’s not that black and white.

#26

For me I don’t see veganism as like a silver bullet of “aha now my eating is ethical” but it’s the most easy and obvious decision to make to change your eating that has the most effect. There’s probably a meat eating diet out there which is better in terms of environmental impact and animal welfare than my own vegan one. But being a busy person, and overloaded with information and limited to what I can get in supermarkets, by making the decision to cut out all animal products I know I’m making a big difference there and it’s an easy line to draw.

Obviously lots of people struggle to change from a meat diet to a vegetable diet and I don’t mean to dismiss them at all, but for my own personal situation I know that’s something I can do.

4 Likes
#27

Most people do buy caged chicken and caged eggs though. “Free range” just means they have a tiny bit more space, they’re not frolicking in a meadow. That’s a big part of why I’m vegan, because cruelty is endemic in industrialised farming.

I do agree with a lot of what you’re saying, by the way, we have to accept a certain level of meat eating in society, I just personally don’t want to participate in that aspect of the farming industry.

2 Likes
#28

I’m not sure if I agree that “humane consumption of animals” is a thing that’s possible. I appreciate this is a black and white view that doesn’t leave much room for nuanced arguments, but I’m ok with “it would be ideal if animals weren’t reared for the purpose of human consumption” as an absolute.

From that perspective I think it is ok to say that vegetarianism and vegan are more ethical than meat consumption. I also think it’s a defensible statement from an environmental perspective, because while food miles and unsustainable (plant) farming practices absolutely exist, things like dairy farming are so resource-intensive that regular consumption of e.g. beef and dairy are going to be hard to outweigh. Happy to be proved wrong on that point though.

Disagree on the chickens - not supporting the exploitation of animals for food production by not eating eggs is, imo, a more ethical position than supporting less harmful versions of the same thing.

All that I’ve written there looks very inflexible but I’m only applying it to my own choices, not dictating how I think anyone else should live.

3 Likes
#29

it’s not too hard in terms of making enough good, interesting meals - though I did get pretty intense meat cravings to begin with. then I just started eating the odd bit of meat. I imagine this isn’t uncommon and think going ‘cold turkey’ is probably not advisable unless you know what you’re doing

not convinced that most peope will ever go fully vegetarian; vegan, zero chance

#30

mmmmm turkey

1 Like
#31

Bought this a few months back

It’s been mostly good. Great battery life, the OS is pure android so nice and clean, and powerful enough to do most things I need it do do. Downsides are the camera’s not great and, compared to the Samsung I had before, there’s a few really minor bugs and rough edges. But the support team have been really great so far with any problems, and to me it’s worth the few niggles to have an ethical phone.

Would recommend for anyone who’s not fussed about their camera or having the best phone about

4 Likes
#33

Tried to stop flying as much in the middle of last year, after a completely unnecessary business class flight from dubai to yangon and back that just felt like gluttony (although for some mad fare rule related reason it actually saved us about 5k on the ticket as compared to not adding that leg onto the trip).

it’s going ok. found that it’s also provided a brake lifestyle-wise and forced me to slow down. it has cost me a lot of money in train fares, given that they are about 4 to 6 times more expensive than flying in the US and take literally days.

would like to break the amazon habit as it’s pretty much unjustifiable

1 Like
#34

A small thing I have done recently is switch from teabags to tea leaves. Discovered that the bags weren’t breaking down properly even after literally years of being in the compost bin - our old friend plastic again.

4 Likes
#35

Making sure I try things a good few times before making any recommendations. So far impressed with this which can be refilled, found it more pleasant to use than normal floss actually. Cheapest price online atm seems to be here:

https://www.hollandandbarrett.com/shop/product/georganics-natural-floss-silk-spearmint-60041628

Does anyone have any recommendations for a shampoo bar? My hair is thick and tends towards greasy if that makes a difference.

#36

I’ve found these to be just as good as washing up sponges - the hessian works really well as a scourer:

#37

I’d describe my hair as thick and greasy (if not washed for a couple days), I use this: https://www.friendlysoap.co.uk/product/lavender-tea-tree-shampoo-bar/ - wallet-friendly, smells good too. My hair was a bit wiry after washing the first few times but is ok now.

2 Likes
#39

How long does these last roughly?

#40

FWIW Aussie are not great on the ethical consumer list re: palm oil

#42

It’s a fricking minefield.

#44

Was thinking about switching to one these vaguely but a friend tried it and her hair went disgusting so she went back to bottled… Slightly put me off… Hmm