August 2018 Politics Thread


#221

they did, but the press and politicians did exactly what they’re doing now, which is try to normalise the far right.

home and gardens magazine:

NYT

in that^ article:

The average Daily Mail reader is a potential Blackshirt ready made. When Lord Rothermere tells his clientele to go and join the Fascists some of them pretty certainly will.

and afterwards they all said they’d learned a lesson and they’d all just been naive. and here we are again.


#222

I’m talking about the average person if there is such a thing


#223

like how the average person now might well identify themselves as a centrist


#224

Speaking of baffling arguments

Apparently “There’s the rub” was trying to convey this idea.

Or are they more likely to vote Tory because they perceive Labour to be more sympathetic towards anti-Semitism within its ranks? After all, in 2010 only 44% of Jewish voters went for the Tories. This whole closing ranks/conspiracy stuff does not help the cause at all.

Fucking hell the Left just needs to eat itself now and fuck off forever.


#225

Way more than that. Think the right and certain elements of the liberal establishment have been very successful at pushing the message that overt resistance to the far right is just as bad as the far right itself.

What you see on the news is two groups of people in the street, with a very equivocal and opaque explanation about what’s going on over the top. Then you go on the internet and find a bunch of people saying ‘Ugh! Both as bad as each other! #violence #nevertheanswer’ or whatever. Then there’ll be one guy saying ‘No actually, the left are far worse, ScumHeads United simply wanted a peaceful legal protest through the most Asian part of town and they turned up to ruin it, they always do this, see here’, linking to a bunch of fuzzy youtubes of people throwing stones and a GatewayPundit article.

That’s what the average person is exposed to concerning the rise of the far right. Frankly it’s amazing we’re still only at the ‘sides of the same coin’ stage.


#226

Hang on I thought it was the Liberals who were the problem. Life is confusing.


#227

EVERYONE’S A PROBLEM GEOFF! NUKE THE PLANET FROM SPACE NOW!!!


#228

Most people will simply have a vague recollection of school history lessons telling them that far left = communism = stalin = really fucking bad. Far right = fascism/national socialism = hitler = really fucking bad.


#229

Hold off on that… John McDonnell’s state-supported vigilante groups mmmmight just sort everything out!


#230

well, I suppose if they’ve got it in them to irritate Daniel Hodges into coming up with another spectacularly bad take then I could hold off for a little while…


#231

One slim advantage the left has is that the ‘communism = stalin’ etc thing has stuck way less effectively than ‘fascism = hitler’. Labelling someone a communist or a socialist has nothing like the effect as calling someone a fascist, which is why we’re beginning to see mainstream leftists happily accept those terms whilst the right still goes out of its way to disavow being fascist.


#232

True, but it’s still massively effective on the boomer generation.


#233

Don’t you think it’s time for people to step up when the higher echelons are meeting with Steve Bannon to strategise


#234

yeah i didn’t get this either, there’s nothing in that McDonnell tweet to suggest he’s endorsing vigilantism


#235

Absolutely. Although every strategy has unforeseen consequences and the stakes are high. You absolutely do not want to make the situation worse.

More specifically re: Steve Bannon, what do you think is an effective strategy against him?


#236

No, and I don’t think he is. But there does come 2 problems when if you’re (as seems likely) the prospective Chancellor of the Exchequer and you ‘call for’ (happy to be challenged on this phrase) some kind of street-level activism against fascists (in this instance). Firstly, who defines the fascists and secondly who defines what is proportionate action against them?


#237

Don’t think there is one without massive press regulation tbh


#238

Yeah you may well be right. And that opens a whole other can of worms.

Putting pressure on the BBC with regards to it seems like a good idea IMO. Esp. around Tommy Robinson. But the BBC have to always be careful not to martyr him, which is the risk. It’s all incredibly complicated.


#239

The bbc is full of centre right people now anyway. It’s a lost cause


#240

i’m probably going to duck this, tbh, and let someone else answer. just can’t have this “define fascism” conversation again. let’s just use “far right” instead.

i will say however that w/r/t your bannon question, i think one easy thing we could all do is lobby the beeb and other media outlets to do is stop giving people like him a platform. the “free market of ideas, light disinfects darkness” argument or whatever it is the nick cohens of the world make doesn’t stack up. nick griffin achieved the bnp’s best ever election results after his QT appearance. stop amplifying their voices. tell sponsors we won’t buy their shit if they keep advertising in media that does. organize a license fee boycott until farage is banned from the air and andrew neil is cast into the sea. idk, just spitballing. there are many non-violent ways to resist.