#41

Bit of all three, although since he’s been WFH I’d say we do equal amounts of housework for the first time ever. There are things though like if I’m making teas and the dishwasher needs emptying, I’ll do it while waiting for the tea to brew rather than leaving it until later, or I’ll notice that the laundry basket is full and put a wash on but he’ll only notice when he’s out of an item of clothing he needs.

I also think I’ve revised down my natural level of preferred tidiness so I can feel comfortable with things being a bit messy as it’s not worth doing more chores than I need to or want to do.

#42

I only ask for help when I’m cooking. He’s incredibly self sufficient and on top of things, more so than I am. He runs things and usually is the one to cut me a deal like “I’ll hang up the washing if you make the bed” kind of thing.

Maybe she thinks you’re doing a bad job on purpose so she just does it rather than making a fuss!

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#43

DING DING DING

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#44

Agree with this, I open doors for everyone etc and would find it weird if a man does this for women only but not men, like help everyone out or nobody, with bills, it depends on the dynamic but if its someone I didn’t know then 50/50, but someone you do know well then covering for each other and swapping etc is fine

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#45

For my niblings, I always try to think outside the box in terms of presents for birthdays and xmas etc. They get SO much gendered stuff from other people, I was a bit shocked when I realised the extent to which boys get tractors and dinosaurs and girls get dolls and unicorns. I gave a kids’ knitting book for a 7-year-old boy recently, and he loves getting his nails painted when he’s visiting, even if he ALSO loves all the typical boy stuff. His younger brother got (not from me) a doll for xmas, it was top of his wishlist. Obviously get them stuff that they won’t hate, but often they’ll love and use a way bigger variety of toys than most people think. Like, all kids love shiny, colourful, sparkly things, not just girls. And they all love exploring and building and things that go fast, that’s not just for boys. And PLEASE for the love of god boycott the whole pink/blue thing when giving presents, parents and their babies absolutely drown in it.

I’m also very proud to serve as an example that women can be taller than men (even dads!!), but realise that might not be relevant for everyone. But honestly, just have casual conversations with the kids, ask them questions, and answer whatever questions they have. They’re very smart.

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#46

And Lego. Lego is always a winner.

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#47

Through the work I do (tutoring, STEM engagement etc) I end up talking to a lot of kids and use complimentary language in a non gendered way (like instead of handsome/pretty binary just saying lovely and make a point of “anyone can like anything” and I’ve noticed that instead of the “girls can do anything” just saying anyone can do anything seems to be really effective as it also empowers girls to know that boys can wear pink if they like, not explaining it well but kind of showing that sexism affects boys too so they don’t feel that as girls they are already inferior and catching up. Also non gendered gifts etc and toys are really good, and even stuff like playing bts videos has created interesting conversations, that the most successful band in the world are men who casually wear makeup, lots of jewellery, wear mens and womens clothing, and it isn’t a big deal, not related to sexuality or gender identity and is just about being comfortable doing and wearing what you like

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#48

feeling really bad dysphoria from my early teens then hearing people talk about gender stuff in my mid-twenties

the dysphoria is tied into cPTSD, although there may be more that I may never know

I also find the term nb very codified a lot, really

I’m just me, and I have felt more able to insist on that as I’ve gone on and spoken to people/read things

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#49

I felt similarly disconnected from masculinity for a lot of my life. I just didn’t really “get” it. I’d spent time wondering whether I might be a trans woman, but that didn’t really seem to fit either. I’d also raised my feelings about gender with my parents a little bit, but didn’t really get much support from them.

So I did what any normal person would do & read up on gender theory and… nah I’m kidding, I got super into working out and tried to hide all my problems behind big muscles. Surprise! It didn’t work.

I can still remember hearing the term nonbinary & not really getting it. I can remember saying that folk using they/them pronouns were just attention seeking. I think I felt like if I had to shut up & deal with the discomfort of my assigned gender, so did other people.

Eventually, I met my (nonbinary, transmasculine) partner. They came out to me on our first date, and we talked about what being nonbinary meant to them. Over time I realised that the way I felt about my gender was incredibly similar to the way they talked about theirs, and so after a while I started identifying as nonbinary (or genderqueer). I think being able to talk through my feelings privately with them and get reassurance that it was totally normal & okay was the turning point for me. I now use both he & they pronouns at work, and I’m contemplating using she/they in future (though I’ve really made very little effort to change how I look, and I’m not sure asking for female pronouns while looking “like a man” is a battle I’m willing to have with the world yet :sweat_smile:)

My advice to other folk is normally: if you think you might be nonbinary, then you probably are. What you choose to do with that is totally up to you - there’s no need to change pronouns or buy a whole new wardrobe or anything. But you might find over time that things like that increase your baseline level of comfort.

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#50

Thank you for this open hearted and enlightening reply. I am sure it will help a lot of people understand and reconsider.

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#51

When I listen to people like you it makes me feel so much more comfortable with myself, with my place in the world, and gives me tonnes of hope. Thank you for sharing your experience.

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#52

This goes for everyone who opens up, you’re all amazing

#53

Um, so yeah. I’ve sort of known all my life that my self, ‘internal voice’ or however you want to call it was female from my earliest memories, like 4 onwards. It never struck me as odd or something to worry about as a young child (albeit it was something I didn’t talk about to anybody else), but as a teenager who fancied girls rotten, wanted to be a girl at the same time, felt utterly alienated from traditional forms of masculinity, but (because of crippling shyness and awkwardness about hormones/sex) was also terrified of girls, it was a bit of a strange time. Went to uni, overcame shyness issues, met a wonderful girlfriend and also kinda fell in with a laddish crowd; probably overcompensated a bit between the ages of 17-21, but I’d more put that down to just wanting to fit in generally rather than fighting against any gender discomfort. They were good days, but I do also look back and cringe a bit.

Anyhow, that was two decades ago. Since then I’ve been with a couple more partners (and got married too, but my wife passed away from cancer) and whilst I didn’t talk outright about how I felt inside, we certainly had lovely and mutually understanding chats about sexuality and gender and how we felt we didn’t entirely conform to what our families and society perhaps expected of us.

l feel I am female deep down, but I have never experienced enough dysphoria to hate my male body (a feeling of wistful regret is where I am nowadays) and am now essentially used to and happy with who I am. TBH it’s DiS that made me think more about my identity, that made me realise that I there is an appropriate term (nonbinary), and that I’m not the only person who feels this way - I’d never done anything in the way of research online until recently! Thank you therefore @sean and all of DiS for this place being what it is :slight_smile:

This isn’t something I’m open about in the real world, but at the same time I do express the feminine part of me via wardrobe, accoutrements and general demeanour and leave family & friends etc to draw their own conclusions. I’m happy with he as a pronoun, and although non-binary does describe well who I am, as @acorn says, ultimately I’m just me, whatever that means. Thank you also to @sweetverbs for sharing your experiences, many of which chime with me so much :slight_smile:

So, yeah. hi :wave:

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#54

You’ve reminded me of that time (would have been c. 2005 I guess) when I went on a date with a woman to a restaurant and at the end it was obvious she wanted me to pay. The next date we split the bill so it seemed like a strange sort of test of me. (It didn’t last but for many reasons really.)

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#55

My wife is actually worse at this than me. I use pegs to hang the stuff so it’s not folded over, thus it has a greater open surface area for drying, but then yes it means you have to be much more careful about which length items to hang where so you get maximum use of the other rails below and on the edges. I tend to do the washing though because of having worked from home much much longer than her and not having a job where I need to attend meetings so being able to go and hang out the clothes immediately after the wash is done.

Same sort of thing with doing the dishwasher and washing up where it feels like she hasn’t really considered how things can get clean best or dry best in terms of efficient rack placing etc. so, again, I prefer to go and do these things to make sure they get done the way that I prefer.

Note: I’m not claiming I do ‘more’ of ‘stuff’. She is still definitely the one who books holidays and keeps an eye on house things that need to be chased up etc because I’m really shit at this. I want to be better but I honestly don’t really have the brain for it. When I was single I just didn’t go on holiday because it was never something I did, for example.

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#56

Had a tinder date where
A) the waiter told us that we had got the 2 for one deal on the food (it was a post Christmas offer in a nice pub I’d picked, not weatherspoons) which I was worried made me look cheap.
B) the woman thanked me for paying before the guy had even put the bill down. I was going to as she’d moved city and hadn’t gotten a job yet, but it was painfully awkward as I was reaching for my wallet.

For several other reasons, and this, there was no 2nd date.

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#57

this was an actually very helpful post cheers froglet

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#58

This thread has been a very interesting read, thank you. The “door” thing has always been an interesting one for me because at work (well, before we were consigned to our homes in March 2020), I always held the door for everyone. Most people appreciate it but it was clear that a few people really hated it. It’s not a habit I’m going to change. It seems actively wrong to me to let a door go in someone’s face!

Bill-wise, I pay most of the the time when out with my partner. Reason? She does a job that contributes to society, I don’t especially. Guess which earns enough to do more than just pay the bills plus a little extra. Thankfully, we’ll finally be moving in together in the coming months, combining our salaries properly, and that’ll be the end of that nonsense.

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#59

I can’t speak for everyone but by default if someone holds a door for me like a normal person I assume they’re being polite and would do it for anyone. If they make a big thing of it or make a gendered remark, that’s when I assume they have sexist attitudes. So you’re probably safe unless you’re saying “ladies first”, refusing to go through a door that’s being held open by a woman, rushing ahead to get to the door first, etc.

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#60

Just shoulder-barging a colleague into a fire extinguisher just so you can open the door first.

Proper gentleman, like.

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