#157

We are all the child :’(

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#159

I think the difference is disliking something and shitting on it and saying it’s terrible are very different positions. Of course everyone has a right to like and dislike whatever they want artistically but as far as subjective taste goes the only thing really worth championing is that which brings people together and brings happiness.

Something promoting tolerance and love is more useful to society than the most beautiful piece of art abstract or otherwise than can be interpreted differently.

#160

so saying something is boring or cliched probably means you are too intelligent or educated in the subject for it but says nothing at all about the worth of the piece to society.

#161

I’d love it if people simply disliked the things they dislike. I don’t like it when people shit on things and declare them to be terrible. It’s so tedious.

…but…everyone does it. Even you. Things will never be otherwise, it’s just what people do. I wish people would just let people enjoy things, but at the same time it’s important to let people not enjoy things too. Because otherwise, you’ll find yourself second guessing peoples intentions and inventing prejudices where they might not exist, and that way madness lies.

Also: “as far as subjective taste goes the only thing really worth championing is that which brings people together and brings happiness.”

Couldn’t disagree more. Bringing people together and bringing happiness is a purpose of art, but not the purpose.

Also, something that brings happiness to one person won’t necessarily bring happiness to another etc. etc. and something that brings one community together might do so at the expense of others etc. etc. This whole thing is just too messy, and far far far far too dependant on individual perception and taste, for sweeping statements like that to be possible.

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#162

I’m sure I do that too but I shouldn’t and ought to be shamed and fought if and when I do it.

Of course happiness is different for lots of people but as far as “I think this thing is better than this other thing” debates and lists etc are concerned, utilitarianism is the only metric that’s it worth anyone investing time into. Otherwise politely disagree and be on your way or you are part of the problem.

#164

Yeah I absolutely hate it. Probably live closer to it than any other DiSer too.

1 Like
#165

Part of which problem?

#166

everything we do is in the realm of society, or to put it another way, everything affects everything else. Art is just a point of view about an activity we undertake in our social lives.

For what it’s worth I don’t like that Stik piece, but I would rather endorse and champion the clear message of “it’s ok for people from different cultures to love each other” over a piece of art I prefer. That is a simple message, it’s a simple issue as far as it’s presented in the piece and does not need to be more complex.

#167

something standing in the way of positive utilitarian change, as I am when I bitch and moan about things people like being shit and worthless without valid reason, and why I should be challenged when I do this.

#168

utilitarianism = bringing people together/social cohesion is a bit of a simplistic metric though isn’t it?

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#169

could be.

what’s a better one? this is shit and too simple?

#172

yeah I don’t think the poll or whatever is a great way of being inclusive but I was discussing that particular stik piece and the general tone of the thread which was “look at this shit art!”. In terms of highlighting individual views, different approaches for different purposes/audiences I think; including a piece with a simple statement of love and tolerance in a broad poll that’s getting picked up on a BBC news story seems to be a positive thing really and the arguments against it have been hostile and snobbish.

#173

and yes I’d agree, social engineering isn’t the domain of art itself but it should be the domain of those that critique and curate art.

#174

Well often the criticisms of utilitarianism are that you’re looking to maximise ‘the greater good’ but nobody can clearly define what ‘the greater good’ is. You’re going with ‘bringing people together’ but you’re judging that by some other ethical code right? Which is where the issues start to come in and it doesn’t look so black and white.

Also I think you have to ask really whether that Stik piece is actually achieving that goal of bringing people together. Like @incandenza says, reducing something which is actually quite complex to something really (and I think overly) simple is potentially a) patronising or b) masking the complexity of the issue?

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#175

It’s probably not a perfect code and guide but it’s the best I can think of and the best I can think of is the best I can do for now so it’s the best option until I think of or someone helps show me another way.

I just can’t see that it is a complex issue, can you explain to me how it’s complex? That might change my view on it somewhat.

#176

yeah I never said Samsung or banksy were any great . just a bit depressing that the most excited some people can get about art is when they get the chance to point out how stupid they think “the general public” are . “the nation’s favourite ____” anything is a shit concept and I guess it plays into that

#178

Well, social cohesion is complex, love is complex, tolerance is complex…I just really feel that this reduces everything to a greetings card level of emotion which doesn’t really serve society in any workable or even utilitarian way.

1 Like
#179

reactionary sneering is a legit response to passionate snobbery tho.

#180

guess I just don’t think things are that complex

#181

Balanksy
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Portraits Of Balonz