Actually really pleased I started the thread, it’s #mademethink

@marckee Great points about how you can be ‘passively’ activist, hadn’t considered that but it’s incredibly important. Regarding how easy it is to be informed - @anon30627475 covered this well but I’d add that even if you are interested in current affairs, in this fast paced world that’s full of information, it can be hard to keep up. If something newsworthy happens when I’m working, I increasingly find it difficult to understand what’s happened from social media, and the subject hasn’t always been covered sufficiently on news websites for me to know what’s going on.

On a personal level, echo chambers are less of an issue for me than the opposite, which is feeling drowned in different perspectives and struggling to grasp what I do and don’t believe in the world. Personally I would never be able to totally disengage from the news, but a) I think I could engage more effectively (I don’t think that engaging in arguments/minute details about Brexit or Trump are useful for me, and think I could be more helpful in learning about and promoting stuff about the environment?) and b) I struggle hugely to really understand and consequently be interested in, huge ideological structures like socialism and capitalism, so probably need to find ways to engage with stuff like poverty (for example) practically rather than intellectually. If that makes sense.

(Actually the 2 main people I know who have recently adopted this strategy are almost caricatures of the two ‘types’ of people who do this: the person who struggles tremendously with MH, and the person who feels uncomfortable with inequalities and therefore finds it easier to switch off than to do anything.)

2 Likes

Undeniably. But the fact remains you still have complete control over who you follow and what you read on there. Maybe the argument is that you need to be ‘informed’ (I don’t like using that word in this context) before you use twitter in particular as a content aggregator! But then again I actively seek out and follow people I completely disagree with and despise. I still follow James Delingpole ffs.

Besides all that, I think those numbers are too abstract for most people. I mean what does 600bn tonnes of waste look like? How do we change our fabric buying decisions in a meaningful way? This is where fair trade got things right; it made it easy to tell which products fitted the scheme and it showed in relatable terms how it helped producers. Big numbers don’t do any of this.

Fairly sure I’m gonna give up all social media this year. It’s just too much of everything. News, feelings of inadequacy, anger, stupidity, rare nice/happy/funny moments.

Bf is currently doing this and hasn’t been on twitter or Instagram or news for 2 months. He’s loving it.

1 Like

Hmmm, I sort of see being informed about the facts as something that’s useful to bring up in conversation because I increasingly it’s seemed really key to avoiding misinformation whether that’s from what feels like increasingly partisan media.

I do definitely feel like there’s a sort of, almost liberal melancholia spurred by recent events, where rather than working on solutions the dialogue from more liberal sources seems to be fixated on endlessly pointing out how terrible the slide towards right-wing ideology is without proposing an alternative.

I’d imagine, particularly if that’s your main intake of media is from these sources, probably the most depressing thing to read and I wouldn’t blame anyone from wanting to switch off.

1 Like

To expect everyone to do that is unrealistic though. There’s interesting research on the psychology of belief and facts - people search out material that confirms their own beliefs rather than material which contradicts. That’s why I think this polarisation of beliefs in the media and online has happened.

2 Likes

I think popular media in general (particularly the BBC and established left and right wing media, is there even a centre ground anymore?) is incredibly tiresome, prejudiced, clickbaity, voyeuristic and speculative in place of being balanced, informative and broad in content.

Brexit is a first world problem at the end of the day and much of the news that we should be concerned about internationally is not that widely reported now with focus instead on schadenfreude, gruesome crimes or political infighting. The Independent as a print newspaper was dull, but at least it made some attempt at balanced news reporting. The Guardian just feels like a left wing platform for champagne socialists and I despise myself when I buy it.

On top of that it is very difficult to trust internet news. Where do people go for reliable news these days?

1 Like

Left wing relative to the Mail or something maybe. It’s mainly a Zone 2 liberal capitalist perspective tbh.

1 Like

Yeah exactly, this was part of what I was trying to get at in our little argument last night - awareness of the enormous scale or the critical state of things is rarely a good motivator of behavior change, often quite the opposite, making individuals feel totally powerless or discouraged or even overwhelmed, disconnected etc

1 Like

I would read the hell out of that
Online anywhere?

I doubt your thesis was terrible but PM away :slight_smile:

Does anyone else not feel the burden of being informed in the following way: (oh god this is gonna sound so superior but fuck it)

I’m part of or on the fringes of a group conversation which turns to some current issue in politics or ethics and people start trotting my out all the well tested bits of the debate, and I just feel paralysed to say anything cos it feels like there’s such a mountain to climb to get them to the point where there’s any true understanding of the thing? Fucking hell thats clunky, here’s an eg:

Was talking to some people about gendered toys and clothes for kids, and one person was like “well they are born with a gender and there’s nothing you can do about it” and I just felt like I couldn’t be arsed going from the very beginning of how genetics probably has only an extremely small part in it and how gender is an intricate act we all learn from a very young age but that the act is fluid and determined by the values and prejudices of the particular society and … nah fuck it I’ll just “hmm” and shrug and say something about my son quite liking his pink socks.

3 Likes

Yes. Usually when speaking to my dad.

on the subject of avoiding social media bubbles, the problem for me is that everything is so polarised

i pretty much only use facebook and i follow some very left wing stuff (corbyn, green party) and in past have followed some pretty right wing stuff (the spectator) and i follow the economist who are definitely to the right economically but very socially liberal

on any public page people seem to be really far towards either yes to brexit/fuck off snowflakes etc. or very firmly towards corbyn/pro gay marriage etc.

and then you get people commenting on the fucking economist going “you’ve turned in the e-communist lol” and it’s like HOW THE FUCK CAN YOU THINK THE ECONOMIST IS A COMMUNIST PUBLICATION

and then anywhere that’s fairly in the centre of those two opposing views is still quite far to the right of what the actual political centre really is - i would consider corbyn to be pretty central in that he wants natural monopolies to be nationalised but not everything, and he wants small and medium businesses to thrive and make a profit - he’s not anti business he just thinks that businesses shouldn’t have all the power. a fairly even balance of free markets and the state

anyway, in terms of being uninformed, since september when i started my new job i’ve been pretty much constantly in a good mood, my world is pretty great (very lucky, me). therefore i can take a look at the news, quickly stop reading it and walk to the pub, i feel ok.

but when i properly read the news and some long form pieces i get sucked into thinking about it deeply, i get terrible existential dread - the environment, the surveillance state, brexit etc. it’s all so fucked and sure, i can do some things for each of them, stop eating meat, go on protests, go to meetings, whatever

but do i think that there’s literally anything i can do that could possibly stop everything going incredibly wrong? no not in fucking slightest

can totally understand why people switch off, yes it’s a position of privilege but so are shitloads of things for many people i know (i know plenty of people earning good money/with mortages/living in london like i do/happy in their job like me/etc. etc.) so i can understand why they don’t notice. what i’m trying to say is that very few people really understand ALL the ways in which they’re privileged so it’s hardly a surprise that people disengage form the news without thinking about the fact that they’re lucky to be able to do so

rambling, should probably sleep

3 Likes

When I was about five or six years old it became apparent that my state of mind was being affected by TV news. Ethiopian famine, AIDs, ferry disasters, iron curtain collapsing, and so on. My folks weren’t (and aren’t) really into by The News (we never had a national paper in the house), but as @marckee noted above, with so few channels, TV bulletins were kinda unavoidable (unless you actively turned the TV off). Anyway, it wasn’t a depression thing, just raw confusion and upset at the way the information was being presented, with my young mind being unable to process it in terms of any sort of context. Upshot: TV news was actively avoided for the next few years and my worries subsided.

Aged 16, during lunch at my first weekend supermarket job, I started getting into the habit of buying a paper. Having no parental precedent, The Express seemed like a reasonable mid-market starting point. Took me a week to clock its awfulness (their daft crusade against alcopops was a main bone of contention, as I recall) and gravitated towards broadsheets on rotation. Remember The European? Into the 2000s it wouldn’t be uncommon for me to buy two or three papers. That abated as the internet and mobiles properly took off, but I still avidly followed The News through various online sources and watched C4 news nearly every day.

Two decades later, and my ability to give credence to just about any mainstream reporting or any news at all on the telly is shot to pieces. Over those two decades I’d already started to see the cycles and patterns and narratives form and repeat themselves. I suppose along the way, stuff like Brass Eye, No Logo/Adbusters (yeah, I know…) and Adam Curtis had done plenty to chip away at my faith in mainstream reporting, too. The coverage of the Scottish referendum was the nail in the coffin.

The past two years have been a tapering off while I’ve watched the Brexit referendum (a carbon copy of the laziness of the ScotRef reporting) and Trump’s ascent (and the aftermath of both) unfold. Neither are new. They’re just ramped-up versions of previous bullshit. And as the plastics thread shows, the real globally world-altering news can’t get a look in.

I still get email roundups from a select few sources to get a feel for what’s going on, but spend next to no time digesting it. Having said that, there’s obviously still loads of stuff worth reading - e.g. that Liberation summary that @anon30627475 linked to in the Iran thread was unexpectedly informative (albeit cloaked in a specific political leaning, but none the worse for that); and Holyrood magazine is quite good as it’s essentially a trade journal, so not really reliant on clickbait crap.

Gonna spend more time reading magazines like Delayed Gratification in the hope of staying abreast of current affairs in a calmer, more measured (healthier?) way. And here, of course (with my echo chamber detector set to max, naturally)!

In terms of whether these are good/bad or helpful/unhelpful media consumption choices, I’m not really convinced there’s a real link to whether you’re a good person or helping. There’s plenty of ways to be ‘part of the solution’ without needing to give time over to watching/reading The News.

tl;dr - No hot takes here, pal. Just some unedited thoughts spewed out on a lazy Friday afternoon. Take 'em or leave 'em.

I’ll be 100%, I don’t think these people ever watched the news, or engaged with politics, and feel like when they take a cursory glance or suddenly realise how fucked everything is, it’s like they’ve suddenly stumbled into a show halfway through without understanding any of it so it seems scary and pointless. They give up and go back to not caring.

yeah, considering people morally wrong for being less informed doesn’t sit right with me, seems more of an issue of human fragility

2 Likes

I have purposely made myself be exposed to much less news over the last few months for many reasons, a lot of which are covered in this thread. I have in fact changed my outlook on a lot of things considerably over the last 6 months or so. I think that a lot of it can be boiled down to my hatred of consumerism which includes “information consumerism” if there is such a thing. Too much to be exposed to, ingested, processed, to form an opinion on…to try and filter out the important and true stuff. I felt as though news and the media is geared up for consumers to slurp it up and then move on to the next thing without truly engaging with anything meaningful. I keep up to date with some news, watch a bulletin daily and that sort of thing, but the previous inherent “need” to consume news almost for consuming sake is well gone. Consequently I feel as though I am able to stop and think and engage much more with the real issues that need it as mentioned here…the environment, ethics, how my behaviour and conduct can make a difference…how I can be accountable. Things I can do to try and make a positive difference however small or insignificant that may be or feel. I feel strongly that I want to pass that ethical frame of mind to my kids too and the best way is to try and set the right example and do what’s right.

My disengagement with consuming so much news has made me more discerning. I actually visit these boards a lot of the time as a source for news amongst other things, because there are many like minded people here who have opened my eyes to a lot of stuff, which helps keeping me properly informed.

2 Likes

Really identify with a lot of this post, but especially this point:

When I have to engage with people with almost polar opposite views to myself…aside from having to accept the futility of trying to reason…it also makes me frequently question my own morals.

Rather than left/right opposing perspectives, I was thinking of being confused by the accepted ‘lib’ view of the world versus the ‘real leftist’ alternate perspectives of the world. When I’m actively thinking about it, I find it hard to really trust either narrative. :confused: where possible I’m generally most inclined to side with a middle ground between the two.

Since becoming aware of how cluelessly in thrall to bullshit most journalists/commentators are, I have begun to despise simplistic and reductive ‘liberal’ narratives, but not with the same passion as i loathe aggressive leftist bro bs. There are traces of that on here, but moreso on Twitter and FB - the anti Israel stance that gets to the point of being toxic about innocent people and is bordering on anti Semitic (seen FB friends support the border control guy here even tho he’s just gratuitously being a dick to a guy who is not responsible for Palestinian suffering???https://www.google.co.uk/amp/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israeli-man-claims-border-official-drew-a-penis-and-wrote-long-live-palestine-on-his-passport-a6733586.html%3Famp ), the fact that they hate ‘the west’ so much that they’ll support violently anti democratic, oppressive regimes just to be contrary (like the blog i read a while back about how opposing North Korea is racist and it’s just a bit misunderstood :’) ), and all the self important pseudo-intellectual incendiary let’s have a revolution rhetoric.

Maybe I’m just tone policing an enlightened view of the world that I’m too basic and female to understand, but this is why I often struggle to subscribe to alternative leftist perspectives on world events :smiley: they tend to go in tandem with all that crap, which makes me suspicious (even allowing for a natural suspicion of socialism etc from my upbringing which I fight against but will never fully dislodge)

1 Like