#35

Also it’s slightly different when the party is racist and has an openly racist manifesto

#36

You mean we’re more accepting of racism if it comes from people we feel politically aligned with?

#40

In fairness - her tweets display ignorance as opposed to a genuine dislike of other races/cultures I think.

I mean, they’re horrendous tweets, but I genuinely don’t believe she is a racist.

#41

Truth here. She can’t expect to hold a particularly important position in political life having posted the things she did as a child - at least not for the time being. She has to take responsibility for those tweets, but she does deserve the opportunity to prove that (as she claims) she’s changed since then - it’s just that needs to be at a grassroots level, not as the face of a national campaign. It is entirely possible for someone as a teenager to fall in with a bad crowd and then change their views/ redeem themselves later in life - our criminal justice system is (theoretically) based on that premise.

The most important thing is for people to acknowledge and own their objectionable past and she’s at least made steps there, as Naz Shah did with her previously anti-sematic posts on social media

2 Likes
#42

Yep. I’ve said some pretty cringey/unacceptable things over the years.

#45

Well actually @NickDS did post the link after you asked but he didn’t @ you. I amended the opening post to point to his post.

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#46

Well this whole thing made me think back to my childhood (which was a long time ago admittedly).

When I was 14 I was at a comprehensive in Leicester, which has always been a very ethnically diverse city. My recollection is that casual racism, most often in the form of “jokes” was pretty widespread, although it was also solidly opposed through school policy.

I can remember sniggering when one of my classmates spontaneously went into a Bruce Lee impression in front of a Chinese classmate (although I think I mainly sniggered at the fact that he got a hefty punch in the face for doing it). In one English lesson I recall being bored and deciding to write every racist joke I could recall on the back of my exercise book. I have no idea why I did it, but I did realise it was a stupid thing to do pretty quickly, binned the book and never did anything like that again.

In summary I think 14 is still plenty young enough to be experimenting with the ideas of right and wrong. My (nearly) 14 year old niece posted a picture of her feet up on a footstool on Facebook the other day, but I don’t really have the heart to tell her that she’s a terrible cliché.

#47

When I was18 in 1982 I arrived in London after a rural upbringing in a Bedfordshire village. I vividly remember saying something completely unthinkingly anti-Semitic in a pub conversation and one of the guys I was with saying “I’m a jew.” I was so utterly mortified at what I had done through just blind fucking ignorance that I still cringe and feel ashamed about it to this day.
At least in those days there was no social media and the incident occurred in the moment and it can’t be hashed up again by others. I genuinely didn’t know better, but I learned bloody fast.

#48

don’t believe anyone is evil, I can happily forgive anyone for anything as long as they learn.

That’s the end of my contribution here I’m afraid.

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#49

Is it really right that she has stepped down though? Does that mean anyone who used to have unacceptable views in the past but has grown and learned as a person and doesn’t hold them any more should still be held fully accountable now for those views?

#50

agree with this but equally the amount you learn and develop as a person between the ages of 14 and 19 makes me feel that ‘only 5 years ago’ is a bit harsh.

#52

The 5 years ago isn’t such much her age, it’s that it was 2013 and everyone is fully aware that is unacceptable even at 14. Sure everyone says stupid things at that age and hopefully she’s changed and I don’t think she should be pilloried or anything but tweeting stuff like that is a bit more than youthful bants.

#53

Yes absolutely. Not denying that these go way beyond youthful bants, but it feels like she is in a position where she ‘can’t win’ - and maybe the right thing is that she can’t win and should be held accountable for things that she said when she was 14, but I’m not 100% sure I’m comfortable with that.

#54

Yes definitely see that and I agree to a certain extent, though there’s not really any evidence that she has buried the tweets… and to be honest I can sympathise with the fact that she might have forgotten that she said things 5 years ago (despite these obviously being fucking awful). What does ‘acknowledgement’ mean in this situation? I guess in a way I am wondering what we expect from her now…do we hold her as accountable for these things that she has said at the age of 14 as if it were now? Likely not, right?

(nb I don’t really know the answer to any of this)

#55

(just read colinzeal’s post upthread which sort of answers my question really well so ignore me!)

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#56

Don’t get the ‘burying’ thing tbh. We’re only having this discussion because the tweets were still publicly available on her twitter profile. It’s a proper tricky one. I have no real concept of what level of reaction I’d find appropriate really

#57

sorry I did have one more thing:

reckon people often overlook the amount of personal growth and maturation that happens between 15-30 really. Being an adult doesn’t really mean you’re an adult y’know?

#58

Yeah I don’t think there is any sense in which she has ‘buried’ what she has said, and she has acknowledged that they are horrendous things to say which is admirable and much better than many people in political positions would and have done. But equally I think it’s pretty valid to say she needs to make an effort to show contrition and regain trust before she can be in an accountable public position again.

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#59

If I found out one of my friends said these kind of things when they were a teenager I’d definitely stop being friends with them.

#60

Wouldn’t you judge them also on how they are now?