The Smashing Pumpkins - Rage against the Machina

He is though!

:rofl:

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set to draiaiaiain

Shadowy cabal of press barons meets in an underwater lair, Rupert Murdoch/someone from the Guardian stands up and bangs the table:

‘Gentlemen, these are testing times. Circulation is falling across the board, and advertising revenues fall faster. Trust in the media is at an all time low. And worst of all, we’ve yet to break Corgan! I propose a drama-doc on ITV3!’

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Given Corgan’s now all too evident batshit views, his cosying up to the alt-right and his refusal to obey the half your age plus seven rule are we completely sure that past accusations against him have all been press conspiracies and vengeful ex-band members? Just a thought.

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I see a victim of child abuse who was ostracized and bullied by his musical peers for having the ambition and talent to make it big, and a press that realized it was easy to score points by using everything he did and the way he looks as a punching bag because he had the audacity to defend himself and say he was proud of his work.

I’ve said it before, but original-run Billy Corgan didn’t do anything to warrant the venom that’s come his way from the press and his peers. He, the songwriter / guitarist / band leader, had the nerve to record the guitars on the deeply personal album he wrote? He followed up his massively successful album with a less commercially-appealing album influenced by the death of his mother? What a dick!

Plenty of well-liked artists have done what Billy did, and to a much more questionable degree, and they don’t get a fraction of the negativity for it. Dave Grohl, the nicest man in rock, fired and rerecorded William Goldsmith’s drum parts and handled it very badly. Greg Dulli fired his drummer and did most of the drums himself on Gentlemen. Courtney Love, whom people seem to view positively now, backed her producer in his bullying of Patty Scehemel and replaced her with a lookalike in videos despite her precarious situation with addiction. No one’s telling Eddie Vedder that he should have killed himself after Vitalogy to preserve his legacy.

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Weird cos at some point he definitely had a modicum of self awareness. I remember around maybe 2005 he was writing this autobiography on his site and there being a bit about how he turned into a sports car-and-sunglasses LA wanker around the time of Adore.

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And as far as Infowars, that was a stupid and shit move. But that came after a bizarre religious awakening and after being incorrectly reported on and bullied by the press for over two decades. He’s not the same person. They were saying he lost his mind well before Infowars, for having the audacity to:

  • continue making music after peaking commercially
  • have side projects
  • have personal projects
  • have a dating life
  • have passions outside of music (opened a business, involvement in wrestling)
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And I don’t think he’s alt-right. As I’ve explained before, he’s the typical uninformed American baby boomer moderate (who sounds more nuts and less measured because of the religious nonsense thrown on top of it). He wants good things for everyone but is (willfully) ignorant about the forces that are preventing that and creating suffering.

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He was literally denying climate change a few weeks ago ffs

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That doesn’t mean he’s alt-right, it means he doesn’t know what he’s talking about.

I mean… Whatever.

It’s perfectly possibly to enjoy a few records he made twenty years ago (or even ones he’s made more recently) without writing long diatribes about how he’s misunderstood and the real victim in everything but whatever, it’s your time and life.

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I just think he was treated unfairly and cruelly, that’s all. I don’t think anyone would be ok with the press and peers of bands today doing the same thing to someone else.

I guess people see what they wanna see.

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Ok I’ll bite…

Why exactly do you think that THE PRESS have conspired to give him such a hard time? I mean it can’t be because of his ‘ambition’ or because he ‘recorded all the guitar parts himself’ because, as you point out yourself above, plenty of other musicians have done exactly this sort of thing and been really ambitious without attracting one ounce of the ire that ol’ BC has.

From my point of view (and many others I would guess) it’s fairly easy to explain: Billy is a cock (and, yes, his terrible childhood experiences which I’m sure you’re much more qualified than me to pronounce upon) may have led to him being a cock. But he’s a cock. A climate change denying, alt-right leaning, mouth-first-brain-later cock.

Plus also his best records are twenty years behind him.

So from my point of view it’s easy to explain the why of THE PRESS BEING MEAN TO BILLY. but how do you explain it? And don’t just say because he’s ambitious? Really? You believe that? He’s such a talented OTT genius that they just HAD TO SHOOT HIM DOWN. So much more talented and ambitious than David Bowie, Prince or so on who managed to escape this universal dressing down?

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If I weren’t doing this I’d probably be worrying about climate change, appropriately enough.

could it not just be “other musicians didn’t like him cos they thought he was a prick”?

I don’t think it’s a conspiracy, I think it’s because he was combative with them and it naturally snowballed from there. He defended himself against misguided reviews and incorrect statements (and shots at his appearance) instead of letting people say what they were going to say. The “guitar parts himself” is something they latched onto.

2019 Billy Corgan and 1987-2000 Billy Corgan are two very different people. He absolutely deserves shit for going on Infowars and for denying climate change and the other irresponsible things he says. My point was that original run Billy didn’t do anything wrong or weird.

That’s the case with plenty of artists, and they’re not treated as if they’ve lost their minds for continuing to make music. Critics also don’t randomly insert shots at them in reviews of completely unrelated bands.

Significantly so, in my opinion. The most talented of all!

Yes, but when you look at the specifics it’s not so one-sided. Plenty of other artists did like him and are on record (often unprompted) as saying he was great to work with and actually seek him out. Pavement literally dedicated the final verse of their best song to shitting on him. Kim Gordon, as a 60 year old, said no one liked him because he wasn’t punk rock enough. I think the problem is with their behavior and mindset. Can you imagine what people would be saying if Billy had dedicated the Mayonaise outro to saying he doesn’t give a fuck about Stephen Malkmus instead of “I just want to be me”? It certainly wouldn’t be, “boy, that Malkmus sure must be a prick.”

she also says he was a crybaby, which he’s provided plenty of evidence for tbh

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