Billy Corgan doesn't exist


I’ve never really been a fan of them or tool too much. Listened to the panned track from that other thread out of curiosity and it was really cringe-worthy and clumsy but I suppose in comparison to this new pumpkins track at least felt like it was trying to say something.

This is maybe the laziest music I’ve ever heard a successful artist make. There’s not even any joy in it’s trashiness it’s just so plodding and empty, the lyrics don’t mean anything or sound interesting, he’s obviously out of tune in certain places which doesn’t work with the overly clinical and direct sounding production.

Man it’s just sad I shouldn’t really slag it off because maybe he really cared about it and was trying to express something honestly but it sounds the total opposite of that to me. :frowning:


My vote goes to mbv. (Hot take time - every Smashing Pumpkins post-reformation album is much better than mbv. Even Monuments.)

I can see why you’d feel that way though. I do think he tried to play it safe here and that’s not where he’s at his best. I think his biggest missteps are when he does that and when he succumbs to his influences.


feels like it only further validated my view that the idea of genius is wrongheaded. I’m no pumpkins superfan but they definitely made some great music in the past. This just goes to show that there’s so many more elements to delivering good music to the listener than the genius/talent of an artist.


Think it might be their worst song


It’s better than Monuments the song, which is basically a late period 311 song without the rapping.


What do you mean by that?


well, both success and credibility are a time and place thing, so many factors like money, hype and public perception, who you are collaborating with, effect how people view a piece of work. Most people who take their music seriously are capable of making amazing world class music and also most people who have made amazing music are capable of retreating to tired and boring stuff.


so the genius lies in celebrating the beauty of a creative process and not in any individual


Yeah they’ve lost it


None of them look like they want to be there

Why bother



Corgan has the same expression he had on that ride at Disney land



The most in-rock n roll thing in the whole WORLD is when bands have an extra guitarist (or more) standing right at the back in the shadows beefing up the sound they were easily capable of creating on their own years ago.


To be fair the extra guitarist has paid his dues so it would have been bad if he got the boot because James is back, guy in the shadows is touring bass player hooky jr, he can stay in the shadows


Good lord. Any misgivings I had about skipping the tour are gone now. That’s 100% the antithesis of the Smashing Pumpkins live. What happened to him? Did all of the new age nonsense rob him of emotions?


I think I see what you mean, but in certain instances I think genius is a real thing. Like, I think if you take anyone else - even really talented musicians - and somehow put them in Corgan’s place in 1987, you’re not going to get anything close to what we got. I genuinely think the level at which he was operating from 1991-2000 is unlike anything we’ve seen before or will see again. Just a true singularity.

Maybe I’ll drag out the Lebron James analogy again. You can take millions of people - including the next best basketball players - and give them the coaches, the training methods, the lifestyle, the resources, the practices, everything that Lebron James has, and none of them are going to be Lebron James.

Wearing a hat on the Gish cover was Billy’s “The Decision.”


well you’ve just bought into a cult of personality there and I don’t know how to argue against that really


Seriously, I don’t understand anything about this at all. The people who are going to be interested in this tour are going to be the people who stood by you the past 20 years and who are familiar with the intensity of your live shows - why would they want to see you sleepwalk through emotionless performances of radio hits that are timed to the second? Why would people who (incorrectly) view you as a nostalgia act suddenly be converted to fans by this? Is this even going to be profitable? That verse of Zero after the “god is empty” bit used to be terrifying live.


literally can’t hear/see that expression without going: