Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

Kept thinking about Rise of Skywalker during this and how much better it was to just have him dead rather than what they did with Leia

Hey, I know “80 minute youtube video where man talks about a Marvel film” sounds like the worst thing of all time, but I watched this the other day and I thought it was excellent. This guy is really eloquent and engaging as a host, you just want to hear him talk about stuff, he seemingly does enormous amounts of research on whatever he’s talking about. His perspective on Black Panther and the cultural context of its production and reception is amazingly insightful.


Thanks for posting this, didn’t have time to watch it all but listened at a few different segments and agree he’s engaging and argues convincingly. Will try and watch it all.

Thought it was really interesting that he started with Lumumba and engages with the Ross and CIA element. Really really incongrous with the rest of what the film is trying to put across. No idea how you square the circle with Coogler writing/directing Fruitvale Station and producing Judas and the Black Messiah and then the role of Ross in both films.

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Really worth a full watch. He’s completely recontextualised the way I view Killmonger. Gone from thinking he was poorly handled to thinking everything about him is completely genius.

I’m only about 20 minutes in and he’s already bought up loads of stuff I’ve never considered. Probably shouldn’t be important, but I really like his presentation style.

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Because it’s closer to two and a half hours.

fucking loved it

Posted in other Black Panther thread: Liked BP2 a lot more than I was expecting. First MCU thing in ages to have actual weight to it. Genuinely think Angie B should be oscar nominated.

So some deeper thoughts.


Definitely could have been a bit tighter. I think the beats were too clear structurally for me, although I respect this is true of (almost?) all the MCU because they understand the kids need a little more.

So we have the big telegraphing of the bracelet and what it means to Shuri’s research with extra dialogue emphasis.

And we have that fairly silly moment where Namor attacks Wakanda, kills the Queen and then just says, “yeah, I’ll be back later so you have time to regroup”, which obviously also sets up the next standard act of the structure.

How bad was Iron Heart’s suit in the final battle too? I hope to god she makes something better in the TV series

Otherwise it was good. My negative niggles are just that.

I actually felt like Freeman’s guy had more sense of purpose here thanks to bringing in the government plotting. He wasn’t a saviour at all, just a function for moving plot in a way that made sense.

I thought all the performances were great and the fights generally looked good, although the fight on the boat seemed too chaotic to fully get in on.

Obviously that was going to be the conclusion. Yeah, it would have been nice to have something a little different but still, it felt right.

And despite my moans about obvious plot the Killmonger ancestors thing was a genuine and lovely surprise

this is a Bad Film. not objectionably bad like Black Adam but as someone who always defends long films, because more of a good thing is always good, this must be one the most pointlessly long films ever. and it mostly looked like a fucking PS4 game, why do people’s costumes have to be CGI ffs, absolutely fuck all looks real. anyway, pretty boring, badly written, absolutely zero action scenes of note, 5/10 at best. however the dogshit blue people did make me really excited for Avatar 2, so that’s something

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Seems divisive.
I liked it. The leads were all excellent, particular shout outs to Angela Bassett and Letitia Wright.
Thought it looked absolutely fine for a Marvel. Sounded very good too in the super-duper Dolby Surround screen I was in.
My favourite thing was the soundtrack, wow, absolutely fucking excellent (plot spoiler: the music in the scene when Shuri drops in and shows herself as the Black Panther to the Wakanda council at M’baku’s place was soooo gooood! Wow)
There isn’t a post-credit scene but worth sticking around for the music nonetheless.

Main gripe was the plot, or rather the motivation of the villain, which I thought was well cack and annoyingly boring. Fundamentally silly in that regard. Shame as it had all the other elements.
Small gripe: Michaela Coel did not have enough to do, my friend and I reckon a lot of her stuff could have been cut. Still, good to see her though. Also, her and Okoye’s Midnight Angel, was it? suits looked like cos-play Kit Fistos. Guess that’s an existing comic thing though

I thought it was good, didn’t mind the long run time. The couple of things I didn’t like were I thought Namor should have been more arrogant and imperious, he was a bit too softly spoken at times especially when angry.

The main annoyance was that it was so badly lit. Scenes at night, in caves, underwater even indoors were so dark half the time you couldn’t see peoples faces properly, once I noticed it was really distracting. A few reviews mention it as well.

Oh and were the Atlanians blue out of water but normal underwater or was it just the lighting?

I actually quite liked that this version was a bit more charming, but I find comics Namor to be a bit much.

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I think this could just be how it would look due to the blue filtering effect but it’s also possible the effect is meant to be only visible out of the water?

It’s one of those things that I let ride because I enjoyed it but I did wonder if effects cost was an issue.

A lot was dark but I didn’t feel it was a problem in our showing at the Finsbury Park Picturehouse. However I also remember thinking it was going to unwatchable for a chunk of the D+ audience due to that when it does arrive.

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There was a notable difference between Talokanian’s in and out of water. Namora and… the other fella with the hammerhead shark hat were both show without blue skin whilst underwater. It just wasn’t explained in the film.

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My comment to this would be that Falcon’s Cap Am costume in the final episode of FATWS looked ‘physical’ and deeply shit.

I think if you’re watching an MCU film and wanting realistic non-CGI stuff you’re looking in the wrong place.

I mean what was the last one you saw that wasn’t hyper CGI do you feel?

Didn’t have a strong urge to watch, but have 9 podcasts clogging my feed reviewing it - so I might now go on Saturday. Congrats Marvel you got me again.

I was wrong, Disney won’t be bunging this on Disney+ just 45 days after release like they did with the last two MCU films, I think they’re doing that with their new animated film Strange World instead

After thinking about it I think Dark World was a very harsh comparison. Maybe more Shang-Chi - a great start and a very good villain that kinda deflates itself during the finale. Not everything works but what does is great. Also didn’t get bogged down with recapping the Blip or indulging in legacy cameos.

I don’t mind that it’s dark. Not just with the ocean, but with the story dealing with grief and such it made sense. I also liked that Ross was a bit closer to the Christopher Priest version, capable but hapless and being tossed around by various higher powers. I really love the look of Talokan and obviously they intend Namor’s actual showstopping to come later but it did leave a lot on the table by the end which is typical Marvel I guess. It’s not close to being the most egregious sequel baiting this phase anyway.

I’ll watch it again when it’s on disney+ if only because I think my mood last week did effect my viewing.

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Got to say, I really enjoyed that. Despite its flaws, I think Ryan Cooler has really pulled off an impressive feat, considering they had to scrap the film and start from scratch. I thought it was emotional, devastatingly sad, exciting, and visually stunning. The lead performances were, without exception, all really brilliant.

Bad bits - Sadly, I just don’t think Riri Williams worked at all. She was really unengaging, and felt shoehorned in. Her performance was flat, and that power rangers suit looked terrible. Thought Julia Louis Dreyfus was awful. All of hers and Martin Freeman’s bits could have been axed. That “shredder” suit looked awful. Weird how they cocked up those suits considering the quality of the production design elsewhere.

Not sure bits - Killing Angela Basset felt a bit like grief upon grief, which was probably the point, but felt like…a lot. It didn’t pay off either as Riri was so poorly imagined that her sacrifice didn’t seem worth it at all. Mini Chadwick in the credits. Obviously quite emotional but just got dropped out of nowhere.

Good bits - All the Chadwick stuff was handled beautifully. The silent opening, the funeral, the ending on the beach. All really well done. That opening action scene on the ship. Namor was fucking great, as was Talokan. Loved how Coogler introduced emotionally complicated characters into the mix, Shuri’s almost turn to anger was handled really well.

I enjoyed Spidey more, but this was the better phase 4 film.


just realised i don’t really remember any of this film except for the fact it was shite

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