#547

We seem to live in a world now where facts don’t mean anything to everyone. You can cherry pick whatever facts you want to substantiate a belief and in turn this reinforces your values, outlook on life, lifestyle choices etc.

#548

Was there ever a time when facts did reign supreme?

#549

I think it’s always been this way, but it’s far more apparent when you divide people into two extremely polarised positions (Leave/Remain, May/Corbyn) compared to when Tony Blair was PM and most people voted Labour. Maybe the Thatcher years were similar to Brexit, having grown up through Blair/Brown and a socially liberal Tory government we’re just not used to it.

#550

I don’t know, but when the internet became mainstream in the early 2000s, as a primary school kid who can remember the internet being introduced in schools, to me that felt like some sort of ‘information revolution’, where facts/information was valued (and society seemed to be much less divided), worlds away from the post-truth climate we live in now.

Maybe this ‘facts don’t matter’, politically divided climate we’re living in now is actually similar to what life what like before the internet? It’s just that none of us can remember. This probably doesn’t make sense, but I mean throughout most of the 20th Century, this has always been a very divided country politically. In past elections, the vast majority of the electorate (as much as 90%) either voted Labour or Conservative (traditionally being much more distinctive from each other compared to Blair/Brown/Miliband/Cameron etc.), and we seem to have returned to that entrenched two-party division, where both sides are very different, and sticking to party allegiances is more important to people than listening to facts (and Leave/Remain is a very ugly form of this). Maybe what we’re observing is nothing new, it just hasn’t happened for a long time.

#551

A deal will be struck. The whole ‘no deal’ being banded about by hard-line Brexiteers and the right-wing press is nothing more than hyperbole. Although any deal struck will inevitably be inferior to the one the UK currently has.

Cameron was right. Why be on outside looking in, having no influence when forming rules and regulations, yet still having to abide by them, when instead you can be on the inside, influencing the outcome of those rules and regulations?

I go to Switzerland quite frequently and, even though they’re not an EU member state, they’re an EU member state in all but name, and that’s what I think will happen to the UK. Switzerland, through agreements with the EEA, trade within the single market, meaning they have to abide by the four main freedoms, including free movement of people, and they are liable to the jurisdiction of the ECJ (European Court of Justice). Although they can strike independent trade deals through not being part of the Customs Union.

This is a deal that is highly probable, but will do nothing to appease either side of the debate.

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#552

Switzerland and the EU currently settle disputes through a joint commission, not the ECJ.

Switzerland relies on a patchwork of more than 100 bilateral agreements that ease access to the EU single market. For the last 3 years, the Swiss have been discussing a new treaty with the EU that could clear the way for closer ties in fields including financial services and power markets. The EU is pushing for this new treaty to fall under the jurisdiction of the ECJ, but Switzerland is refusing to give in on that particular issue and negotiations have reached stalemate.

#553

Ah, I misunderstood the current jurisdiction of the ECJ. My argument still holds, though, that Switzerland, although not an EU member state, still has to adhere to EU rules and regulations, especially that of free movement of people. Back in 2014 the Swiss voted to limit free movement of people but the EU has stated the requirements of the bilateral treaties that allows Switzerland to trade with the single market.

I think that is what will happen in the case of the UK. It will no longer be an EU member state but will still have to adhere to the same rules and regulations as before if it wants continued access to the single market.

It will ultimately appease neither side of the debate.

#554

I’d like to think this but with the right wing press holding the governments nose to the grindstone I can easily see headlines being plastered everywhere saying that May bottled it, rather than she didn’t want to sacrifice the country’s economic future on the bonfire of nationalism.

#555

He’s not wrong

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#556

he doesn’t know us at all!!!

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#557

Maybe not wrong, but certainly a bit oblivious:

it is really hard to understand why a country that was doing so well wanted to ruin it

#558

I saw him yesterday, doing a photoshoot with Sadiq outside the new Bloomberg office by Cannon St.

All the restaurants in the complex were giving out freebies so I got a slice of free breakfast pizza. Take that, Brexit!

#559

I mean, the reason is at least partly because, while the country is doing fine in terms of GDP, your average person isn’t doing that well out of it and inequality is through the roof. Ultimately bankers being richer doesn’t mean anything if wages are stagnating and prices and rent are inflating. Suddenly it doesn’t feel to people that they’re doing so well. Even though it can, and surely will, get much worse thanks to Brexit

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#560

There are some nice, if rather corporate, places in that new block:

#561

Quite.

As noted upthread re. the guy from Goldman Sachs:

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#562

Yeah, but have you seen the water features? They’re grotesque, like they’ve accidentally uncovered some Great Old One sleeping beneath the foundations.

the-office-is-located-on-top-of-a-site-of-historical-importance-the-site-was-previously-home-to-the-ancient-temple-of-mithras-and-roman-londons-commercial-centre.jpg1200×800 224 KB

Also, the main entrance has this overhanging mezzanine thing that I find structurally terrifying to walk under, can’t find a picture though.

#563

That looks badass.

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#564

Go on…

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#565

They look like massive pools of dried-up sick.

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#566

Genuinely, if you see it in person, there’s something viscerally unappealing about them (there are several of them). Especially since they never seem to have water in.