Brexit Thread IV - Negotiations begin (and we're all screwed)


the latest from Robert Peston

Just when the prime minister was desperate to lower the heat in those volatile negotiations on the UK leaving the EU, her Brexit secretary David Davis has thrown petrol on the raging fire - by saying there may not be final formal agreement on the terms of our exit till the last possible moment, namely one second before midnight on 29 March 2019.
This is incendiary both in the House of Commons and in Brussels.
Among MPs, especially Labour ones. it is outrageous - because, as Chuka Umunna pointed out in the Commons as a point of order, it appears to contradict a government promise that Parliament would have a “meaningful” vote on the eventual Brexit deal.
But that vote could never be “meaningful” if it takes place after 29 March 2019, as Davies confirmed it might well be, because by then the UK would already have left the EU.
It would give parliament the status of an approving chamber in a tinpot dictatorship.
As for Brussels, Berlin and Paris, what Davies said flies in the face of all their procedures, because they want and need a Brexit deal signed by October of next year, so that it can then be ratified BEFORE 29 March by national parliaments and the European parliament.
Strikingly, the prime minister appeared to contradict Davies when she said, during prime minister’s questions, that she hoped a parliamentary vote would be in good time before we actually Brexit.
What is underlying the mess and mayhem?
It is the conviction of May and Davies that not only the terms of our Brexit can be agreed in the coming 18 months, but also our future relationship in respect of trade and security - and the sheer magnitude and complexity of everything that has to be settled means, for Davis at least, that talks must and will continue till 29 March 2019.
They have to believe this is practical, because they are surrounded by Brexit zealots in their own party who are terrified that if talks on the future relationship with the EU were to continue after 29 March, during a so-called transition period to full Brexit, the UK would in practice remain a non-voting member of the EU for an indeterminate period, perhaps (they fear) forever.
The EU takes a completely other view. Its lead negotiator Barnier sees it as immutable truth that the future relationship between the UK and EU, especially a free trade deal, will take many years to negotiate - and that therefore talks on that future relationship must and will continue after 29 March 2019 during that transition period.
So all Barnier thinks can be agreed and ratified before 29 March 2019 are how much the UK pays as its divorce bill, the structure of the border between the Republic of Ireland and the UK, and the rights of EU migrants.
In other words, Davies has shone a light on possibly the most explosive question for both MPs and the rest of the EU - which is whether it is remotely practical for Brexit to actually mean Brexit in a year and a half from now.


“Fetid swamps”



Rolling Descent into Fascism Thread [chat away]


They know exactly what they’re doing. Scumbags.



Imagine thinking that Brexit was ever a good idea.


Some people saying the government might have (accidentally) publish one of the impact assessments:


Oh I think it’s actually a pre ref one. But still…


The Brexit department has refused to release key details about the 58 secret studies into how leaving the EU will impact the economy, saying officials need to make policy in a “safe space”.

Bunch of snowflakes.


LITERALLY the week after they said they’re going to outlaw safe spaces in universities. Fucking amazing.



They’ve copied in Vince Cable for some reason.


number 3 is pretty much a straight up lie, some errors were recorded during the auditing of EU accounts but they were audited


Leader of the Liberal Democrats (unless this is a wolfcastle.jpg)


It was a wolfcastle, sorry (but I’m sure the info will be of use to some people)


imagine thinking "well, my local pub chain says it’s how it is. it MUST be true


Why not? We’ve had just about enough of experts mate.


My first thought was to wonder if I’d missed a DUP leadership change



Multi-millionaire Tim Martin could only have my best interests at heart, right? Just like multi-millionaire James Dyson.