#792

it’s not working well at all at the moment but seems to be the only system we can currently easily implement that gives the poor any kind of voice or power. Otherwise what value does the life of anyone with power have? Might as well turn them all into soylent.

#793

Would prefer Batman because his car is sick and at least I know he’s a fascist. As long as I don’t loiter in alleyways I’m sound as a pound.

1 Like
#794

From a personal level I can get quite angry and sad when so many are homeless and using food banks etc and the debate still comes down to “stupid people” and “I need to find a way to leave the country”. It’s just the same old apathy for the poor manifesting

#795

*without power

#797

This is why I’ve shifted on UBI, which I was initially supportive of but I actually agree with Chukka on the topic now, in that giving people a stipend really is just a way of washing hands of dealing with economic inequality and the barriers to radical social change while making us even more dependent on a system that views us as fundamentally inhuman.

2 Likes
#798

yeah fair enough.

Gonna stop discussing this now anyway because it’s crushing me a bit x

#800

Anything the Zuckerbergs and Musks of this world are in favour of should be treated with the utmost suspicion.

3 Likes
#801

One of the main reasons for brexit. to get out of the tyranny of EU laws about employment rights, equality, health and safety and consumer and environmental standards.

#802

Love to base society around what’s best for the small business owner.

#803

This is interesting:

#804

The Lisbon treaty, for instance, aims to establish a “social market economy”, with “social progress” and “high levels of protection”, which rejects “social exclusion and discrimination” and promotes “social justice” and “equality between women and men”. That’s literally stamped into the political DNA of the EU system. It explicitly protects workers’ health and safety, working conditions, social protection, redundancy terms, access to information, collective defence arrangements and more. And, of course, it directs development fund towards regions that are economically struggling.

This is pretty much why the right want Brexit isn’t it?

Only thing though…that article is good but it avoids Greece, and as someone who is on the fence about that story I’d have liked the writer to explain what actually happened there. Cos there are about fifty versions of what the EU actually did.

1 Like
#805

Hmm…

#806

It also neatly sidesteps the fact that the original treaty on which the EU is based doesn’t sound that dissimilar to the interstate federalism that Hayek was talking about back in 1939.

Not to say that this makes lexit a more legitimate position as contrary to what certain reactionaries have been saying the EU has changed significantly since then. It does provide another avenue of argument however.

1 Like
#807

Aye. Not to get both sidery about it but I think Brexit is serving as a useful distraction for people on either side of the debate. The Tories probably don’t care whether coverage is positive or negative when it can overshadow something as horrific as this:

Also, the people saying Brexit could lead to a civil war or societal collapse…okay, that’s worrying, but according to that article the Tories have killed almost as many people in seven years as the last major conflict in Europe did over ten years:

…and Brexit or not, atm we still have another 4-5 years of Tory rule ahead of us.

#808

No chance.

#809

I dunno man, there was supposed to be another election by autumn, she was supposed to have quit by summer’s end…I can see them sticking around a while…

#810

I can see them limping on for another year or so, because of course they will want to cling on to power for as long as possible. But there are far too many fault-lines and egos to last anywhere near the whole term. May is an absolute zombie, and whoever replaces her (hopefully Gove) will have to call an election.

1 Like
#811

Depends how Brexit goes. If we go over the cliff edge with no deal and we end up with soaring food prices, huge queues at Dover, no planes allowed to take off, living standards plummeting, any government which oversees that is fucked. The government, who fucking hate each other and only currently still exist in the interest of maintaining power, will be fully aware of this, which makes it obvious that they surely must in the end do what will cause the least damage and hope that the Corbyn thing runs out of steam. That said, the current government have an agenda so deeply horrible and unfair that they cannot fuck off one day too soon and I pray they do so ASAP.

2 Likes
#812

The government, who fucking hate each other and only currently still exist in the interest of maintaining power

That’s the crux of it for me; they’d carpet bomb Parliament if it meant they could govern the rubble.

1 Like
#813