Brexit Thread IV - Negotiations begin (and we're all screwed)


so Davis is literally at this point lying or hyper, hyper inept. or both. there are literally no other options.

have realised, really, that far more than May or even Boris, Davis is the embodiment of everything fucked with this whole thing.

Benn asks a final question.

Q: Did the government undertake an assessment of leaving the customs union before the cabinet took that decision?

Not a quantitative one, no, says Davis.

Q: Isn’t that extraordinary?

No, says Davis. He says the range of different outcomes it too wide. Some free trade agreements have been very effective, and others haven’t. Ministers had to take a judgment. That is what thy did, he says.


Where would you rather the majority of the country got their news from?


a range of different sources


Cool. If you wanna tell a local plumber with 2 kids the next time you see him about the importance of consuming news from a variety of sources then go nuts. We are immensely privileged in having a) desk jobs with free internet access and b) leisure time we can dedicate to sourcing news content.


I really, really hope he chooses, “Damian Green should be allowed to watch porn wherever he damn well pleases” as his hill to die on. It’s probably too late to help but I’d like his political eulogy to read, “put the right to crack one out in one’s office above all else.”


Inititially I thought that a plan of “throw a bomb at the gates and then come at everyone with a knife” was perhaps a little on the optimistic side in terms of likelihood to succeed.

Then I realised that all evidence suggests that May would defend herself by standing still in the street doing nothing while David Davis stood next to her shouting “you haven’t got a knife and even if you did there’s no reason why you’d stab her with it.”


Sounds like both. He lied about the assesments straight up, didn’t occur to him they might be a good idea when they were mentioned and for some obtuse reason figured leading parliament along would be a good use of his time rather than just admitting it earlier.

I’d say he’s going to be up for a good Bercowing later in the week over this.


Dark - although accurate - content.


Note that Rees Mogg is bizarrely trying to pave the way for this all to be ignored and moved on from


cool. but why assume a “local plumber” is who i’m on about, or that i’m saying the plumber and not the content producer is the problem? or that i have a desk job? or that having a manual labour (working class) job and having kids prevents someone from being interested in what’s going on in the world? i’ve been a union steward and repped a shitload of people in working class jobs who had families and i’m pretty sure a fair amount of them would blow most of us on here out of the water if we had a discussion about politics with them.

i like you geoff but this was a shit take.


That’s the way he rolls surely.


All I’m going to say is he’s a very bizarre character. From huge concern about contempt to zero interest in being deliberately misled.


Strawman. I didn’t assume either of those things. I used plumber as a shorthand for someone who works in a manual trade and is significantly less likely than a desk-based employee to have ready access to “a range of sources”. The figure was 56% of people - that covers a lot of workers.

It doesn’t. And I didn’t claim it did.

Fair enough. But the point is that yeah it would be great if everyone dedicated time to accessing a range of sources and points of view in terms of consuming news. Also if the majority of people get their news/politics content from television then… that’s ok isn’t it? It’s the medium you’re least able to engage in selective confirmation bias with isn’t it? In short - I don’t have a problem with it.


Also, I’m enjoying the standard formatting of a Lib Dem press release. It’s got to the stage where they’re making “strong and stable” look under used by the Tories earlier this year.

  • Statistic or thing that happened today
  • Quote from Lib Dem MP about how outraged they are
  • “This shows why the British public must be allowed to think again on Brexit in a second referendum.”


yeah but my initial point was more the source itself is the problem, which i admit i should have made clearer in original post, not the person who chooses to watch news on the telly. i mean we know there’s a pro-power, self-censoring, filtering kind of process the beeb/itn engage in, and this leads to a very real bias in the way things are covered.


Sure. And my question was which single source is better. I mean would you rather 56% of people got news/politics content solely from newspapers or social media? Think that’d be worse tbh.


agree, if tv is the main source i think it’d be better for the beeb itself to provide the variety in its broadcasts instead of what they have now, which is a bunch of tory-hosted shows with guests spanning centre-right-to-far right-with-the-odd-guardian-columnist.

i mean i’m not asking for tankies to be on every panel of question time but i think the beeb do have the same problem the NYT op-ed page has, just a totally narrow view of what diverse opinion is.


ha we’ve had two near miss flashpoints and salvaged both pretty well, this is how beeves is resolved :beers:


Heh in my view this is actually the problem. Speak to people on the right and they’re convinced that BBC programming is stuffed with Liberal Remaniacs so… What the BBC does badly is mistake ‘balance’ for impartiality. So you’ll have… I dunno, take the EU Referendum for instance. You’ll have an economist going through the various potential economic scenarios of Brexit vs. Nigel Farage who just says “that’s all bollocks project fear bwaaaah” and that’s job done as far as they’re concerned. ‘Balance’ =/= good debate.

Haha no beeves from my end son.


rayner spitting :fire::fire::fire: