Brexit Thread IV - Negotiations begin (and we're all screwed)

[BodyInTheThames]

@anon30627475

we are totally off the subject of brexit

I think the opposite - all of this is central to the subject of Brexit and at the core of what might come after

I don’t share your optimism re:Corbyn though I’m afraid - an isolated UK with a fucked economy & pitchforks out for anyone not waving the right flag is not ripe ground for a raft of progressive policy (not to mention the brain-drain to the EU that will occur because of it.

The absolute best I can hope for is that May/Tories faceplant so badly on Brexit that there is an early election, Corbyn comes to power on the promise of a 2nd ref on the final deal and the 2nd ref delivers a ‘let’s just revoke Article 50 & stay in the EU’ outcome. Then a full renationalisation & infrastructure investment programme in health, education, elderly care & transport

…and then I woke up

[anon30627475]

well tbf i was predicating all that on either a softest-of-soft brexit or the whole thing collapsing entirely. but i think at some point we’d need to be outside the EU if you want a socialist, egalitarian society (as @Ruffers said previously). there are ways to do that which are slow, cordial, well planned, and don’t involve pissing off an entire continent with colonial and fash rhetoric. what’s happening atm is just fucking psychopathic.

[BodyInTheThames]

we’d need to be outside the EU if you want a socialist, egalitarian society

you see, this is the point at which I STRONGLY disagree …I think just as you outline above that the class struggle has to come to a calamitous point for the ruling classes to be defeated then I think the same applies to Nationalism - that the far right crisis across Europe is the last stand of Nationalism and must be defeated by a united Europe. The UK Brexiting would be a victory for Nationalism (in the short-term at least, in the medium to long term it may not been seen as such but by then it might be too late)
…on the other hand, if I were French or German or Polish or Spanish etc. I might relish the complete collapse of the UK as an example to the rest of the world of the perils of providing succor to Nationalism

sigh

I just think a broken Britain is always destined to be rebuilt in a more & more degraded & degrading version of itself clinging onto the Jingoism of colonial Empire propaganda

[anon30627475]

I just think a broken Britain is always destined to be rebuilt in a more & more degraded & degrading version of itself clinging onto the Jingoism of colonial Empire propoganda

but we’ll always have the music of the rolling stones

[BodyInTheThames]

Sorry m7, that music was tax exiled to Jersey decades ago

[kiyonemakibi]

Actually, let’s not put the public in charge of anything

Put the British people back in charge of leaving the EU

[anon30627475]

end universal suffrage now

[Ruffers]

I wasn’t a Lexiter by any means because I don’t believe in borders in the first place but I find it hard to identify the EU as anything other than dogmatically neoliberal. Fuck Kant and the horse he rode in on.

[anon30627475]

have noticed this weird division between remainers similar to the one between democrat voters in the US post-trump. like if you’re not 100% a fan of hillary/the EU you kind of get savaged relentlessly, as if it’s not possible to have reservations about the EU while also thinking we’re probably best remaining.

*not saying this is BITT by any means, he’s a GBOL and has very good takes.

[Ruffers]

I completely get why though, some of my closest friends are facing deportation at the moment and compared to our current political climate the Kantian house that doesn’t exist seems like fucking utopia.

[BodyInTheThames]

Yeah this, the EU has a massive way to go but having lived in Paris & Stockholm I genuinely feel European & feel I have actually found sanctuary away from both the toxic empire jingoism brainwashing of the UK & the utterly fucked class system too

That suddenly, out of the blue & on the back of the worst kind of class politics (crash x austerity x scapegoating) I and countless others have their lives & plans & opportunities & futures crammed back in a red white & blue box, nailed down with ignorance & bitterness and phony nostalgia because a load of baby boomers want some kind of parade or last hurrah over Britain’s superiority …

I mean, for fuck’s sake

[anon30627475]

i hope boomers live long enough to be eaten by the feral hordes

[TheWza]

I still hope Scotland can pull the rug from under all of this. Or at least escape from it. Not sure how. Not sure if it would be without some unwanted side effects. But I really wanna see Westminster crumble, the ruddy gruddy Empire #punchaboveourweight #seatatthetoptable mindset get further diminished to the point of international farce, and the Britain=England assumption get #takendownapegortwo.

[anon30627475]

LET’S FUND THE NHS INSTEAD

Jeremy Hunt privatising NHS firm which saves taxpayer £70m a year

[blimeycharlie]

Later dropped, fortunately:

Ministers drop 'misguided' plans to privatise NHS Professionals

[harru]

deleted because silly

[TheWza]

good choice.

[BodyInTheThames]

Billionaire Arlene Foster in border u-turn

Is that this morning’s headline? Can’t work it out

[BodyInTheThames]

hmm

there’s surely some mutually exclusive shit here right?

[BodyInTheThames]

hmm

Main points of agreement between UK and EU in Brexit deal

“EU citizens in the UK and UK citizens in the rest of the EU have the right to stay. Rights of their children and those of partners in existing “durable relationships” are also guaranteed.”

But they wont have equal rights or indeed any freedom of movement to come and go. And ‘durable relationships’ …so kids are at risk of deportation in a divorce case ? That is horrifying