#900

Apology accepted.

If not the apple cart, then what exactly is stopping the supposedly newly-shy Corbyn from declaring the plan in public? (Assuming you’re right about this secret plan, of course.)

Being scared of what side the electorate will take between an open and plain-speaking Corbyn versus Tories saying Brexit means Brexit in response ain’t a good look. Why not have the confidence to eschew tippy toeing around trying avoid spooking the animals?

It wouldn’t be difficult to say something like The scenario we’ve found ourselves in as a country is clearly nonsense, but we recognise our parliamentry status in terms of us not being the government, so, with the best interests of UK we support the efforts of the Gov in attempting to secure the best future for this country. BUT, when the full details of those efforts are known, should the Gov have failed in achieving this by securing X,Y, and Z, under no circumstances will we give parliamentry support the continuation of the Brexit process and we will do everything possible to halt it when the time comes to approve the deal in parliament.

Or words to that effect. I’m not a speech writer. But you get the gist.

3 Likes
#901

He’s said that, repeatedly. I know it doesn’t get much coverage, especially north of the border, but that’s basically Labour Party policy.

#902

imagine if you were told you had move house, but not to a house, to a tent oh and you won’t be able to bring any of your stuff with you

you have two options, living in a tent with your really horrible aunt who you suspect will fail to provide you with any blankets (she’s not actually told you anything as it happens but a few of of mates think it’ll definitely be fine cos the tent will be near the beach)

or living in a tent with your friendly ol’ grandad who has repeatedly said he’ll provide lots of layers of blankets and lots of cups of tea too! your other mates say it’s fine cos going along with grandad means the beach loving mates will come round to grandad’s tea loving ways.

meanwhile, you think hmmmm… it would bloody great if i could just continue living in my house like i always have done

i’m (not particularly) sorry i’ve been trying to think of an analogy for bloody ages and now, i’m sober and bored on my own at home and i’ve finally got one even if it’s shit so there we go

#903

Can you link me up? From what I can see, labour.org.uk only really has if we were the government manifesto stuff.

#904
#907
1 Like
#908

This is worth a read:

#909

“DD believed the stuff about how we were not a supplicant, with many more cards, how we were in pole position, we could play off the member states against each other, we were going to undermine the theologians of the institutions.”

Still remember that from the time and laugh.

During the first full week of talks, in July, the Brexit secretary took part in less than an hour of initial discussions before returning to London. At the time, this was viewed as a symptom of the parliamentary turmoil back home, but subsequent departmental records show that Davis returned to London to have a private dinner with the Daily Mail’s editor Paul Dacre the next day.

Still remember that from the time and cry, and scream, and cry.

#910

No rush, just when you’re able.

#911

Although #Irexit sounds rather aptly like ‘I wrecks it’

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#912

…which itself sounds a bit Welsh. :grinning:

#913

Oh, didn’t see this as I wasn’t on here over the weekend.

I think what you’re after is stuff like this, where Starmer says that there should be a vote on whatever deal the government strike and also on a no deal scenario (note that this means that voting down one option does not mean that the other becomes the chosen option by default)

http://www.itv.com/news/2017-10-15/keir-starmer-labour-will-vote-against-brexit-no-deal/

And this, from here:

“Labour have always been clear that Parliament, not ministers, must have the final say on the UK’s withdrawal agreement with the European Union. This means both a vote on the draft deal and then primary legislation implementing the ultimate agreement.”

Obviously, without any clear direction from the government on what their deal might actually look like, no one can commit to rejecting it outright at this stage.

#914

Starmer was saying there that we need a transition deal for after March 2019, and we shouldn’t leave the EU without that in place.

He doesn’t say ‘we need X, Y and Z from the final deal’, just that there needs to be a transition period.

But he doesn’t at all raise the possibility of removing support for Brexit, which is what @TheWza was getting at. Nobody on the Labour side has said that, afaik - where do you get ‘that’s basically Labour party policy’ from?

Labour are being too reactive on this - they need some red lines of their own, show some leadership! Suppose if they did set out their goals there’s a chance that the Tories could meet them and thus flank them on the issue, but fat chance of that.

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#915

^This.

Starmer kinda almost gets there. But while rightly mocking the worthless use of the phrase ‘no deal’, he then goes on to use the very same phrase in reference to some key issues without actually laying down any actual red lines.

So no, it’s not clear what Labour wants or expects to see in a ‘deal’ that would mean them voting for or against it.

“Either we go off the cliff with no deal which would be disastrous or we go on to sensible transitional arrangements.”

Nah mate. We could just not pile over the edge of the cliff at all, and turn around and go home instead.

6 Likes
#916

Jacob Rees-Mog and the rest of the European Research Group seem to know just when to chime in.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2018-02-20/may-under-pressure-after-62-tory-lawmakers-demand-hard-brexit

Given the number MPs affiliated with the group, I’m pondering whether this could eventually lead to a leadership challenge.

#917

I have yet to see anyone who has advocated this explain how this could be achieved and then what happens after.

#918

‘We’ve looked into the options and Brexit will be a disaster and will make everything worse and no one voted for that’.

Everyone celebrates as disaster has been avoided.

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#920

Around half the country celebrates as disaster has been avoided.

And what then?

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#921

62 MPs would ordinarily be enough to force May to step down, but in this instance it is not enough to topple May given that the other Tory MPs outnumber them and are as entrenched on this, and none of the 62 will want to risk the government collapsing.

#922

The Remain campaign again, then.

1 Like