#424

What’s the basis for thinking this? I want to believe!

#425

Apart from middle class young people who would listen?

#426

You’re mistaken if you think remainers are only middle class young people.

#427

I mean I’ll row back on this slightly given colinzealuk’s post, UKIP have largely always advocated access to the single market not necessarily membership of.

However Norway who Farage talked repeatedly about emulating are in the single market (although not in the customs union). So I’m not entirely sure how distinguishable these things at least as far as the party position is concerned.

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#428

Please look at the referendum results and the demographics in the leave and remain areas.

Thanks

#429

Isn’t this just that myth that brexit was voted for by non university educated older working class people outside of major cities?
That’s part of it sure but even in a lot of those areas it was still close to 50/50 and there’s loads of older or working class people who are pro remain.

#430

Well some of its based on what I know about Corbs and have read and some just intuition. If I were him I would let it play out long enough for it to become clear to even Joe Blogs that the Tories don’t know what they’re doing, and mobilize press contacts to plant incrementally more dramatic stories about how we’ll essentially become 90s Russia if we Brexit. Then I would start raising this more at PMQs and once the polls were looking favourable I would strike out for full remain but with certain caveats that enable me to implement my socialist policies under the umbrella of the EU.

#431

Oh, for sure.

I think the most important really is the second of the three I’ve listed - it kind of goes against some sort of sense of fair play to have a referendum held on one set of principles (which includes the government saying we WILL implement your decision, even though it was officially advisory) and then pretty quickly go “nah, actually we don’t think we should do that.”

If you ask many remainers whether they want Brexit stopped, then you’ll probably get a large number saying yes. If you ask them whether it should be, then you’ll get a more mixed response, and that’s really what you’re seeing there. Frustrating, innit.

That horse bolted about fifteen years ago I think when both sides of the HoC were happy to blame Europe for their own failings. Again, this is why I think having some semblance of a deal on the table is important for changing people’s minds as everything is still theory and is being cast as more “project fear” stuff.

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#432

Play on Joe Blogs xenophobia tbh, show them pictures of failed East European states in the 90s and say the science shows us this is where we will end up, a gangsterized state where it’s every cunt for himself. Do you want this, is this the world you want your grandchildren to inherit, I’m afraid there will be no cheese and Victoria sponge for Beth and Toby if we Brexit.

Thank you Mr corby the scales have fallen from my eyes i now realise to save ENGLAND I must be for remaining, have my vote.

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#433

I would absolutely vote for you based on this. But it’s just speculation whether Corbs is thinking along these lines - and necessarily so if this is the plan (as he can’t tip his hand, has to be reluctantly led by public opinion etc).

Can the Corbyn team pull it off?

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#434

We will see, but when you think how everyone laughed when they said Trump would win, that we’d vote Brexit, and when Dianne Abbot said Labour would close the gap and she turned out to be right… we’re in the Zone, sure, and bad, unbelievable things keep happening…but why can’t this work in our favour? I mean it sort of did already during the election, when something unbelievable but good happened. Why not again?

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#435

Very true, nothing is assured anymore. And this is the best thing to hope for I reckon. I’ve said on here before that I broadly agree with Corbyn’s Labour across most issues, apart from Brexit. If he pulls a heel/face turn on this one, then I’ll be all in. Might even buy a Billy Bragg album.

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Brexit Cancelled (18/2)
#436

Steel chairs at the ready for his face turn I say. I have to believe he sees what’s going on the same way we do otherwise his entire movement and the labour insurgency is all for nowt.

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#437
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#438

Corbyn reaffirms Labour’s commitment to a hard Brexit.

That leaves only three openly pro-EU parties: SNP, Greens and Lib Dems. The first has already maxed out its influence (bar IndyRef2, of course) and the other two are only bit players for the time being. Disappointing.

#439

So you can’t have the Norway model which includes financial services (which equates to 70+% of our EU exports) because to have that you must accept free movement. That leaves the Canadian/Japanese model that does not include financial services or a hard Brexit. It really is that simple, I have lost count of the number of times the EU have pointed this out.

this comment sums it up really

the clusterfuck continues eh

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#440

Becoming harder to believe he’s a secret remainer guys

I get the idea that he’s pushing the Tories down this path so they can fuck it up and he can say ‘I told you so’, but the strategy of deliberately going along with a mistake isn’t a genius one. For instance, the Tories being critical of Blair’s invasion of Iraq after the fact had no credibility because they voted for it

That’s if you believe Corbs is a secret remainer. You could also take what he’s been saying since the referendum at face value, i.e. that he wants a hard Brexit. Has he lied before?

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#441

Lol.

#442

I’m sure you realise there’s a distinction between campaigning for Remain before the referendum, and maintaining a pro-Europe/SM position afterwards. Bit odd that Corbyn went from supporting Remain before to going full Tory hard Brexit after.

Again, Corbyn might be playing 4D chess with us here (‘secret remainer’). Is there any evidence for this? There’s quite a lot suggesting he wants a hard Brexit!

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#445

I’ve read five versions of this story now and none of them have him saying anything stronger than “If it’s a hard (i.e., Tory) brexit you can’t stay in the single market”. Which is a statement of fact. He didn’t attend the summit because it’s convened to discuss something that can’t happen and is therefore completely pointless, the worst kind of ineffectual shitlib posturing, as the Guardian’s “unnamed source” admits.

When Labour say they’re on a lads mission for a jobs first Brexit I’m pretty sure that’s the layup for the old switcheroo right there. “Well gosh we (Labour) ran the numbers and it turns out there’s no such thing as a Brexit that protects jobs. Guess we’re staying buckos.”

Sorted.

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