#447

It’s Chuka though, isn’t it?

Expect to see a new column in the Guardian some time today.

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#448

That’s based on the Conservatives’ red lines. So your point only stands if Corbyn chooses to adopt their positioning (which he has, so far).

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#450

That Brexit is happening is set in stone. How it happens is not. The red lines are based on nothing - the ballot paper only said leave or remain. Every leave voter seems to take the referendum result to reflect their take on Brexit, but that isn’t so. There was no unified view of what Brexit means (hence ‘Brexit means Brexit’ being a funny phrase, because nobody knows/can agree what Brexit means).

#451

The red lines are based upon the requirements for being part of the different bodies that the UK could want to be in (or out of).

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#453

This is the crux of it I think. It would totally make sense - going along with it, until it becomes totally untenable, then changing course with public opinion. But Labour have to somehow make it clear that this is the Tory Brexit, while simultaneously voting for it and backing it to the hilt.

So what happens when/if public opinion changes? Labour might have a credibility problem given that they voted for the bloody thing all along! And if they change tack, it also would prove that ‘jobs first Brexit’, a campaign promise, was a lie all along. Really don’t like the way we’re hoping the ‘good’ politicians are actually lying to us!

At what point do they make their face turn? There will come a point when it’s too late, right?

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#454

Oh yeah, anyone thinking that lot are treating this summit as anything other than a photo up are kidding themselves.

I do think Corbyn is wildly overestimating the ability of centrist labour to read between the lines though, given how they’ve reacted to his statement.

Jeremy Corbyn has insisted the UK cannot be a member of the single market after Brexit, disappointing some of his pro-European Union MPs.

He needs to wink and say, “Catch my drift? I’m on your side you fucking numpties but I’ve kind of got to, you know, be a canny politician at the same time.”

#455
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#457

CG?

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#458

The red lines are based on Tory policy as you said yourself, and like it or not, they’re in charge; what’s notable is that although they’ve only got a narrow majority at the moment and there’s dissenters to the party line, they’ve largely stayed solid (Ken Clarke aside) when voting (plus they’ve got the likes of Hoey bolstering their numbers).

So far, there’s nothing I can see that Labour have been able to do that would change the direction of Brexit - indeed, Corbyn getting strongly behind an anti-Brexit stance could well scare off some Tory rebels rather than bring them into the fold.

I’ve been trying to work out who EE is; it’s got all the hallmarks of someone familiar with DiS, but I can’t work out who.

#459

Well this is what’s concerning me but I don’t know how else they’re supposed to handle it. Even if they could obstruct and block and complain about everything they’ll get hit by the media and their leave supporting voters. If they go along they get this. IDK what the answer is there. I think they’ve offered some solid amendments and opinions FWIW.

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#460

What have Labour actually voted for in parliament?

They’ve been putting in and voting for lots of amendments, many of which the government haven’t been adopting, but there have been very few, if any, actual votes on the type of Brexit/negotiating stance that the government should be taking.

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#461

Definitely

#463

Anyway, Davis is getting upset that the EU are planning for a ‘no deal’ and is considering legal action as a result, despite the government doing exactly the same thing:

https://www.ft.com/content/7306b972-f49a-11e7-88f7-5465a6ce1a00

#466

What’s best for the country would be nice.

#468

So a Labour government then.

#469

Are we back to arguing about Labour’s position on Brexit? Is this going to be a monthly thing?

#470

It was more of a ‘chance would be a fine thing, what are they like, lol’ comment but as an actual answer being anti brexit by pointing out that all the things leave voters wanted will not be achieved or things made even worse by leaving.

Although… ‘chance would be a fine thing, what are they like, lol’

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#471

Not if Brexit happens it won’t be.

#473

Weekly I believe :slight_smile:

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#474