Brexit Thread V - Only the Best Trade Deals


#621

You really think that being in the EU doesn’t work better than being out of it?

Plus you have a real tendency to wilfully misunderstand what people say and take little bits of of context. You did it up there with the general public comment. It’s tedious.


#622

Nick - seriously man. :confused:


#623

I don’t think anyone’s said we need to support or accept it, we just disagree on how it should be stopped.


#624

What? I’m sorry a don’t want this country to be completely fucked over. And snarky emojis (not from you) are not helping.

I’m going now, this shit is making my eye twitch. :frowning:


#625

mate. you don’t get to hold the monopoly on being angry about brexit. 99% of us here are, some for reasons that cut to the core of the way itll affect their families even.

we don’t have to 100% agree with your ideas on stopping it though, and shouldn’t be accused of being all super happy to see stuff go horribly wrong just because we don’t have your exact line of thinking. that’s bullshit.


#626

Particularly if you believe that stopping it in the wrong way could give an immediate boost to the racist and right wing element that would place a lot of vulnerable people or minorities in significant danger.


#627

exactly this, infinitely


#628

I’m not saying people are super happy cos of it, and I’m not talking about any one specifically here, I just see no logic in the ‘we have to do it’ train of thought.

Sorry if anyone’s upset, I think I’m having a stressful day.


#629

Yeah, this. He’s bored doing his radio show which nobody listens to, and yearns for the days when he was relevant.

Just think this could be a misstep from his perspective. Having possibly the most recognizable Leave figure advocating a second referendum could affect public opinion on it being a good idea. And people that I know that have voted UKIP, voted leave, think that the Tories are making such a cock up of it that they could possibly switch. Wouldn’t be easy mind.


#630

You’re right about one thing - I do disagree with you

I should probably qualify that; what you’ve described here is pretty much what exists in Sweden, Norway, Denmark right now - a hardline Nationalist party not picking up enough votes to rival the two main parties but significant enough to ensure that neither has overall majority and they take the Kingmaker roll - a bit like the DUP but louder

So far, in Sweden at least, the other parties have refused to form coalitions with the Nationalists. Not so in Denmark and Norway where the Conservative parties have invited the Nationalists to form governments in order to get them over the line - a bit like the DUP only less devolved

So while I agree that such a thing is a possibility in the UK (though the lack of PR in the UK ironically makes this less likely than actually splitting parties - such logic being how Cameron got us here in the first place) I do NOT agree with your implied interpretation that letting the Nationalists have this one will assuage their ambitions.
Quite the reverse, it will empower them both politically and out on the streets
…and then what? Where will it end? How many people will be told to ’go home’ (or whatever the vernacular) ?

The heightened fear of being subjected to discrimination & othering is already present…how will it be post-Brexit when the economic conditions really kick in? When people feel the real crunch of the shrunken state apparatus & the market takes over everywhere? Do you think the aggressive Nationalists and racists will just turn into nice people? Of course not. They’ll want new scapegoats, they’ll want to burn the hijabs, kick out the blacks and expel the Jews because they stood up to the EU and won so what’s a few mongrels and intellectuals ? Send ‘em back

Honestly, it’s the economic conditions that’ll bring neo-fascists to Westminster on the back of the misery of others & those conditions will be far worse post-Brexit


#631

^ that was to me earlier. And I took that to mean…that you were saying that I was cool with destroying the country. goodness knows how :wink:

it’s fine dude. this is the worst possible time for all of us here tbh. stress is inevitable. i can comfortably say here that no one in this thread is cool about brexit happening. we’re just all figuring out at our own pace what the hell the ‘right’ answer is, if there even is one at all.


#632

this point is well put over, and scares the fuck out of me.

but i think one of the difficulties with a referendum so badly created and executed is that there’s a grey area, to the tune of millions, who aren’t the fascists, and have just been mislead to feel anger at the wrong people. but to ignore them… is it not a high chance that you end up creating a mass of people more likely harden in their stance and start seeing from the fascists point of view far, far more? You’re essentially growing the mistrust, and then you really do end up with even worse people in govt if they have a serious majority backing…


#633

That’s not what I said, and it’s not what you said either.


#634

I don’t think it’s necessarily letting them have this one, I suppose one area where I do disagree with you is that the type of Brexit, if indeed it does end up going ahead, doesn’t matter. I think it very much does. Allowing public assets to be immolated on the pyre of privatisation is a choice and I think it’s important that it’s shown that it was conservatives that are the ones making it.

There’s still scope to fight for workers rights, against privatisation and against rising xenophobia whilst still not having the same representation we might have had in Europe. I still think there’s a chance to fight for an internationalism which benefits everyone.


#635

That was my paraphrasing @colinzealuk’s point above

I admire your optimism but I fear that radical ideas will be needed everwhere in the world to weather the changes necessary to survive potential catastrophes in climate, economy, rights, labour and so much else - it would be very ahistorical to believe that a Political system in the twin turmoils of jingoism & Brexit driven recession would be open enough and forward-thinking enough to embrace radical thinking…far more likely authoritarianism & hardship.
Even having a discussion about worker’s rights will seem like a decadent luxury so desperate will Government be to pander to ‘wealth creators’

Properly radical but necessary ideas like universal income and moving the tax burden from wage labour to capital won’t even be on the map


#636

But those millions of non-fascists…what mobilises their (small n) Nationalism?

Lack of prosperity. It’s not really control that they want it’s properity, real prosperity, shared prosperity

They want the same as anyone - to feel that them & their loved ones are safe & taken care of and that possibilities are open to them

How’s that gonna look on the other side of Brexit?


#637

yeah. i know. i don’t think there’s a way of brexit happening (or not) that doesn’t fuel nationalism one way or the other, you know :frowning:

(i know that’s obvious. just the worst to say it out loud)


#638

Meteorological correctness gone mad.


#639

Come on Corbyn, get this Brexit business in the bin, stat


#640

“the horror they prevented.”

were the rest of us who witnessed friends and relatives get fucked without mercy under the coalition government having a collective hallucination or something? did the government kill 120000 people with austerity only between june 2016 and now?

these #FBPE cunts can fuck off.