one last tweak
Plus the effect that the 2010-2016 targeted austerity had on the EU referendum too.
Blair/Bush Wars in Afghanistan & Iraq that destabilised a whole region (Syria, Egypt, Tunisia etc) x global economic collapse x austerity + jingoistic bulldog bullshit = Brexit
But it’s all a bit redundant to go back and allocate blame on this party or that party, all efforts have to go into stopping Brexit if we’re gonna halt the continuum of misery doled out to the working classes & immigrant classes and so on
This will of the people crap is just another stick for the ruling classes to beat the proletariat with while hitching them to the ploughshare & driving them through the mud
i think to the remainiac types like mike wilson, blair, etc, the EU is this glowing benevolent entity that they’ve projected all their liberal utopianism onto. that’s the fault of our domestic politics for not providing a strong alternative to the last 40 years of managerial technocracy but…managerial technocracy is what the EU is. it has a terrible record on migration, it’s completely failing to deal with the rise of the far-right on the continent…i think the pro-EU campaign should have adopted corbyn’s stance, which i personally think is the soundest, which seems to be a cautious and skeptical remain.
suppose they hold another referendum and it’s remain, but we’re still under a tory government, how would this mean austerity and racist migration policy and exploitative employment practices would end? i mean, that goes for the EU too.
and if all efforts go into that, what does that mean for the current real and immediate problems facing the NHS, the poor, migrants, etc in the meantime? sorry, can’t deal with asos making your quadriplegic son work in a warehouse, gotta stop brexit.
this whole thing is an absolute gift for this government really, it’s become a hugely boring and circular debate that’s diverting all attention from the shitty little deals and policies they’ve been making in the meantime. look at how grenfell has more or less dropped off the radar. it also offers tories and liberals and centrists a way to try and force corbyn into taking ownership of a disaster they created so they can destroy the only mass movement in the country that actually has a positive vision of the future to offer people.
This is a really obfuscating question
The left/labour need to get on board with stopping Brexit for the same reasons as they campaigned in the last GE - for the many not the few - only that ‘many’ should be fully inclusive, not just limited to people with blue passports
How on earth do you think the NHS or the welfare state is going to function after Brexit ??
It’s all very well everyone tending to their garden but when the tsunami hits whole streets are gonna get washed away, wholes cities & regions are gonna collapse - the most vulnerable ones will obviously go under first
If/when the economy tanks after Brexit everything the Government can sell off will be sold off - all the structures that protect the most vulnerable people will be thrown to the market & authoritarianism will be all the Govt have left
been done before but i’m indecisive and assume others are too… what you currently planning?
- stay in the UK cos i don’t have any way out
- stay in the UK cos i want to
- live in Ireland drinking Beamish with @Kallgeese
- move abroad and learn a language
- move abroad, already speak another language
Move abroad to somewhere where English is the first language (but this is not directly Brexit related).
this is what i mean about it being a boring and circular argument now. it’s not an obfuscating question at all if your main goal is to stop brexit. what vision of the future beyond “remaining part of the EU means everything still getting worse but the middle classes are sort of protected and things decay at a slower pace” is the remain camp actually offering at this point?
you seem to want even people like me who don’t particularly like the EU but voted remain to completely go full-tilt and pretend it’s this magnificent, effervescent organization that can do no wrong and has brought only good things to the lives of those its touched. the last 7 years alone have seen a remarkable enshittening of public and economic life in this country and the EU did fuck all to mitigate it. also “tending their garden” is a pretty insulting way to talk about the millions of people fighting the tories every inch of the way on the NHS, climate, racism, class, foreign policy, etc.
It’s subject to change really but my friends and family are here, so I’ll probably wait until the hellworld finally devours us all (probably 2019 at this rate).
this is the thing that no one (other than DiSers) seems to get
it’s not “oh there will be a recession but we’ll come out of it”, it’s not “aah my industry won’t be hit too hard” it’s gonna be “Richard Branson now owns your internal organs, plus the air you breathe and the crops grown using your shit as manure”
this is word for word how i feel about london
and now that i think about it, how i feel about brexit too
Lots of people do get it - it’s one of the big drivers behind Labour’s support in the general election.
I suspect he already does tbh.
this is what i’m trying to say - without a leftwing government offering a vision of change, which is what is desperately needed, things either collapse at once with brexit or continue to collapse slowly if we remain, but either way the core problem - capitalism - isn’t fixed.
idk why we’re all taking about this as though labour have the power to stop brexit.
the more that labour oppose it the easier it’ll be for the tories to get on the narrative front foot. they are begging for opposition - they only know adversarial politics. the only way this goes away is if they fuck themselves and, as depressing as it is, the left’s best shot is to let them (until there’s a doubtlessly terrible final deal on the table when we have to go all out to reject it.)
all coming out against it now does is fuck the left’s voting coalition for the next election.
Further, even if Labour had the power to stop Brexit, there’s too much disunity on the Left on the issue for them to fully capitalise on the opportunity anyway. There’s a fervent Lexit wing, not least within some of the party’s biggest financial backers.
I don’t know where you are finding this in what I’m saying
The blame for this lays squarely at the feet of Austerity
Sorry if you feel insulted by the metaphor but the point still stands - none of these noble battles will be strengthened by Brexit - they will ALL be decimated.
Once Brexit is delivered May will stand down, Boris will become PM & every tale of hardship brought before him will be spun as Corbyn talking down the Great British people. It’ll be war-footing, Dunkirk-Spirit, Red, White & Blue, stiff upper lip, weather the storm hegemony …and any attempt by Corbyn/Labour to put forward the idea of renationalising/public investment/regrowing the state will be met with laughter & derision & pointing back to the myth of Labour’s profligate spending/borrowing…and/or the fear of raised taxes…and Labour will quite frankly need to raise taxes & borrow hugely just to plug a Brexit shaped hole & get us back to where we are now let alone any further forward
Brexit isn’t the end of austerity, it isn’t even the continuation of austerity, it is the structuralisation of austerity into small Govt. running the country via private contractors with vested interests that have power & direct influence over legislation, permanently
It has to be stopped
So…basically like the election we had last year then?