Buying a house - first steps

That sucks. :triumph:

This sounds like very kooky advice. Sure, other bidders will know there’s a bid, but they won’t have any way of knowing what it is.

Some people just can’t be trusted innit. :lying_face::unamused: Trust no-one, and get yr bid in early.

Better to have a bid on the table and in the mix than to have the dubious (non-)advantage of playing your cards close to your chest.

The Scottish system ain’t perfect (sealed bids is hugely nerve-shredding, and if a closing date is cited, it ought to be kept to, really, even though it isn’t obligatory), but I’d always take it over England’s version (from the point of having a bid accepted, onwards, things ought, ought to be relatively bullshit-free).

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@laelfy & @plasticniki re:

Helensburgh

Screenshot_20201016-214633_1

Some backstory in the thread…

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See, I was told that you don’t do that because they tell the other person what price has been turned down. Lesson learned there.

I absolutely wouldn’t. When I bought on England everyone knew where they stood. This process feels like a wild stab in the dark. The result of all this is I never even got to offer properly on the property despite listening to the owner, agent and solicitor, and doing everything supposedly ‘right’.

After some ‘heated’ discussions with the agent it turns out the owner was supposedly approached privately, and was a cash buyer (ie buy to letter). He accepted that offer despite me putting in a last minute offer and although our offers were apparently similar he went with the BTL because they can complete in four weeks and mortgages at the moment are taking 8. The worst thing about this is that he really made a point of selling the property to me by saying how nice it was that all six owners in the block lived there so they could get stuff done easier and didn’t have lots of transient tenants. Then he just sold his neighbours out anyway. Ah well.

If I hadn’t been so strongly told not to put in an offer, I would’ve done that on Monday and who knows where we’d be.

I’m just so very, very frustrated by the whole thing. I want to go egg the guy’s windows.

Now probably going to sit it out and wait for the inevitable crash :confused:

For sure, both systems are at the mercy of shitheads. And it sounds like the seller here is absolutely one of them. With the agent being utter knobheads, too - why would they say that? After pondering, my best guess is that the agent likes to have notes of interest to go back to and subsequently pile the pressure on with chat about there being actual bids (rather than just accumulating bids from the off 🤷).

I don’t think this is right. My understanding (and I absolutely stand to be corrected) is that if you make a bid, the seller is privy to what it is from the point you make it (and can therefore opt to accept any bid at any point regardless of any chat about closing dates), but (because of the ‘sealed bids’) other bidders are never (whether by law, or merely convention 🤷) made aware of what anyone else has bid (not specifically, anyway - though I gather it’s not uncommon for hints and ‘ballpark’ summaries to ‘leak out’ after the event, when they’re of no direct consequence to that particular sale - but I suppose that info could be of some use if you’re unsuccessful and want to gauge the ‘heat’ of the market for yr next shot).

Really don’t want to labour the point, dwell on the issue, be patronising, or whatever, but was your solicitor entirely independent, with no conflict of interest (i.e. not linked in any way to the selling agent, etc)?

I dunno. It feels like the role of solicitors in Scotland is integral from the very beginning and serves to moderate the process somewhat. Whereas it feels like estate agents have free reign to play parties off against each other in England, and solicitors step in after they’ve played their games. 🤷🤷🤷

Give me leasehold and the shite that is the English system over the seemingly total madness of the Scottish one. Just seems you could totally pay over the odds to secure a property in Scotland as you are just putting in sealed bids & trying to 2nd guess strangers. Happens a bit in England but, nope, couldn’t be doing with it. See also “offers over” “O.I.E.O”. Just name a price ffs

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Beautiful. But I can feel the damp from here. Also, realistically, how much is it likely to go for?

This particular flat was
Overs over £135k
Home Report £145K
Eventually sold for around £170k

Absolutely infuriating, complete lottery, especially as not all properties sell for over the home report, so you’ve got to guess

Yeah, your example was exactly what I was wondering. When it says offers over a price, the home report comes back even more. What do you do? If you know there are 4 other parties interested ( do you know that?) what’s your play? Presumably you have to offer over the home report in the knowledge that chances are someone else will, but then how much? Just seems a massive risk that you are buying over the value of the property…
Sorry to hear you missed out.

We had ‘best and final offers’ for ours, and everything we offered on.

If it was something we absolutely loved we’d just bid the most we’d pay for it and not bother with gameplaying too much. Though with ours we assumed other people might bid in round figures, so ended up paying £180,320 or something

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Yeah ours was like this too, can’t remember the exact figure but it was x thousand and fifty-three pounds or something similar. We also wrote a letter saying how much we liked the property, area etc and how we wanted to keep the garden organic and stuff like that. Just the weirdest process in retrospect.

If there’s a couple of interested parties it till go to sealed bids, so you all submit you secret and final offer before a closing date, then the owner can decide which offer to take. In the west end of Glasgow the majority of properties (but not all, which is the tricky bit) are selling for 10-15% over the home report.

But if you buy over the home report then you have to pay the difference in cash, it can’t come from your deposit.

Meaning that first time buyers are kind of screwed

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I’ve been told to list mine as an OIEO as apparently it puts it into different buckets when searching for listings??
Like if we want £305k for ours we shouldn’t list it as £305k as people searching for £250k to £300k won’t see it but may see it for £300k OIEO and could negotiate up to £305k?

All bullshit really isn’t it

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It’s properly ridiculous up here for that. Had to change our rightmove search because anything on the market for 200k was going for 220k+.

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Yeah that seems like a stretch. Anyone searching for £250k to £300k who isn’t at least browsing properties a bit pricier than that is being a bit of a pillock. And you don’t want to sell to a pillock.

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if I’m looking at things my range is like 400k-550k but there might be something for £560k that could go down to £550k!
Annoying!

Hypothetically of course :wink:
And that range goes up to £600k and you start going “oh that’s miles better for just a bit more” then you have to snap yourself out of it cause you really only wanted to spend £400k!

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Want this house so much! It’s got at least two halls to go through before you even get to the “Reception Hall”! I’m prepared to overlook the fact that the measurements imply the house exists in some higher dimension and that access to one of the bedrooms appears to be by climbing through a first floor window.

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Oh man, am really annoyed on your behalf reading that through. This absolutely stinks, what an arsehole.

This 100%. Don’t wait for anyone else, it’s absolutely not in your interest to wait. What’s really annoying is you tried to get in there early but the agent was being obstructive, which sounds very dubious/sketchy on their part to me.
Waiting so there’s more viewings etc. is understandable but there is a process that should be followed. From my understanding if a formal offer comes in then the agent is obligated to tell the seller, whatever it is, whereas they seem to be preventing that from happening. Also it didn’t even go to sealed bids because this BTL fucker came in? Their offer was just accepted? What a shambles.

I’ve had a squizz on rightmove and I think i see which flat it might be, if it is that one i’ve never heard of that agent before. (ABC?)

Best of luck finding somewhere, it is really frustrating but the right place for you will come up.

This is my understanding too. The agent shouldn’t tell the other interested parties what any unsuccessful bids were at all, whereas the seller should be presented with everything by the agent.

We tried to find out what bids had gone previously on our place (first time around it went to closing date, offer was accepted but (lucky for us) the person pulled out a week later so the flat got relisted). We got nothing out of the agent apart from the accepted bid was an offer over the homebuyers report. This is what I would hope/expect from reputable agents.

Agree with this too - our solicitor was really on the ball when dealing with the agents. It felt more official doing it via the solicitor.

This is the worst part of the Scottish system for me. The reliance on the homebuyers report valuation as gospel. It’s the value used in a mortgage application yet can bear little resemblance to the actual sale figure. We spent 25% of our total savings on the difference between the homebuyers valuation and the sale price. We were lucky we could do that from the money we got selling our previous flat, as you say it’s really prohibitive to people who are first time buyers or those who don’t have much by way of savings etc.

Whereas in England if something sells for +/- £10-15k of the list price, when it comes to the mortgage valuation, in my experience it doesn’t really matter too much if something is above or below by a few thousand, it’ll likely get approved for whatever amount the sale was for*
*within reason, i’m sure there are exceptions but I think this generally holds true.

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It’s just behind the army building by the river if that helps you locate it.

Chalking this one up to experience. I don’t mind being outbid, just wish there was more transparency

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Ah I see it now, it’s nice along that stretch. Nice flat too, dunno how often they come up along there.

I thought it was one overlooking Ruchill Park, handy for the Frisbee golf!