#377

Is that absolute, or real?

Given that Germany has experienced wage growth far in excess of the UK in that period, it has a long way to go until they catch up in real terms.

#378

Yeah. But the freedom one has owning a property outright and not having to pay rent/mortgage costs… and if all you need to do to achieve that is smash a bit more extra into the mortgage each month… no brainer for me personally.

1 Like
#379

Indeed. In my case I have no need to take any risks at all, and there’s minimal benefit to me from taking any voluntarily.

#380

yeah this is my thinking, and then when that freedom has been acheived that might be the time to look into other options etc -

and if everything collapses i still a have a roof!

2 Likes
#381

Not if it’s the roof that collapses, so maybe lay off the Kasabian to be careful.

4 Likes
#382

I have zero. I know you’re correct though, and several people told me the same. It’s all due to personal experiences. But it’s moot really, as it’s paid now.

#383

Real. In particular, the situation in major cities (Frankfurt, Munich, etc) is fucked, because:

  • interest rates are low (i.e. mortgages are super-cheap, and returns on savings are rubbish)
  • unemployment is at its lowest since reunification
  • the economy is buzzing
  • international investors desperate to make a return
  • a building shortage

Sounds familiar?

#384

I never said that it was a paradise, just that the situation is a lot better than in the UK.

2 Likes
#385

This is exactly the key difference here. The rental market in Germany its a financial company making a buck, in the UK it’s individuals building personal wealth. There is also a real estate tax which helps + a tax on selling property.

Also a significant public rental sector and many housing cooperatives that help drive rent down. Owning property in Germany ​just isn’t that good of an investment compared to here.

#386

I don’t know about Marckee but how fucked property market is really isn’t what I’m questioning. The issue is how important property is in terms of building and mentaining wealth.

#387

Only on properties sold within two years of purchase, or in the case of buy-to-let homes, 10 years.

Given the recent house price rises, it is now. Property (called Betongold in German) has become a refuge for savers.

#388

But rents are ultimately more expensive then mortgages. Actually now they are straight up cheaper then renting. So when you get a mortgage you are paying less then you would on rent to buy a asset of enormous value. While renting you are basically digging into your savings while paying off someone elses mortgage.

#389

Fair enough so Germany is starting to have the problems that are already in full flow in the uk. What effect will that have on the rental economy? Surely less people will benefit from this wealth boom.

That tax is still better then the uk system. Particularly that it’s targeted on buy to let. Rather then say it being aggressively promoted.

#390

While the overall trend has been bearable for many, rents have risen much faster in some big cities. In Berlin, the average rent for an apartment jumped 40 per cent between 2007 and 2016. In Munich, it rose 21 per cent. Rents have risen so fast that if you are a policeman or a nurse you have no chance of being able to live anywhere near the centre and have to move far out to find a flat.

In June 2015, in an attempt to slow the pace of rent rises, the government introduced a new rule: in areas where the market is judged to be overstretched, landlords cannot ask new tenants to pay more than 10 per cent more than a local benchmark rent.

The problem is that, especially in urban areas, housing supply is just not keeping up with demand. Rather than a further tightening of the rules around rental prices, more incentives are needed to encourage the further building required to tackle rising demand.

#391

can we get back to calling each other Tories, lads?

1 Like
#392

sorry, this is now the thread where @aboynamedgoo schools everyone on the german housing situation

8 Likes
#393

Its Euro 92 all over again.

1 Like
#394

In Norwich we’ve had a ~30% rental increase in 10 years London is at about 40%. I does seem like the same trends are happening but at least I imagine action would actually be popular given a large % of people being renters. Here there is a very real split between the property owning majority that want housing value to remain and the renting large minority that are being fucked over.

Same in the UK ultimately more affordable housing needs to be built but given the money real estate brings and the amount of people benefiting from the current situation it’s hard to find the will power.

Germany is still building about twice the amount of houses the UK is building and sure it’s a little bigger nation and both are clearly coming short.

#395

As far as I remember, me and xylo were discussing the relative merits of paying off mortgages early rather than rent vs mortgage.

2 Likes
#396

when those of us who are in our late 20’s are in our late 50’s the difference between those that have a mortgage now and those that don’t will be stark (i don’t have a mortage)