#33

Whilst this is correct - if you ask people what they care about policy-wise, renationalising the railways would come quuuuuite far down the list.

#34

Not the the operator, but the team behind him/her as well. And it’s not just plainly evident that there’s few good behind-the-scenes people in politics at the moment, but also they seem to be pulling in about 6 different directions right now, just within the two “big” parties rather than trying to pull together in the same direction.

#35

And immigration was a minor concern with the wider public until the press and UKIP pushed their line repeatedly and vehemently.

#36

Yeah makes sense. I saw that Corbyn’s office have got that Momentum lad working for them now - be interesting to see what happens there. Seems a bright enough chap.

#37

Frank Sinatra needed his lyricist to take another swing etc.

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#38

UKIP and the press tapped into/harnessed something that was already there though - they didn’t create it. The relationship between public opinion and media/political influence is always more complex then you make out.

And in any case the two things are not remotely comparable. Unless you can envisage a future scenario where a seismic referendum result is delivered off the back of people flocking to the ballot box to say something about rail nationalisation.

#39

Also I think saying that immigration having been a “minor” concern is a bit of a stretch. It’s been a mainstay of British politics as an issue since the 50s.

#40

Ten years ago, if you asked people what they cared about policy-wise, immigration would have come quuuuuite far down the list.

#41

True. But in this small bit of theatre I’ve put together, JC adeptly uses this as a pivot to claim more centre ground

JC: The government claims to be in the centre ground of British politics, working for everyone, but that’s not true. It’s the Labour party that has policies that the public support

TM: Hah. You think the public support your hard left policies. You’re even more deluded than I thought. Brexit means Brexit.

JC: Well actually they do. You call renationlising railways hard left, but look at these numbers that proves that most people support it. So maybe thats not the only policy of ours that people support. Made you think.

/exeunt JC to make jam/

#42

Afraid not:

#43

Aye. Ultimately Corbyn has to find a way to win trust on the economy in particular. Some of the smaller policies can actually help with this - Rather than continue spunking £27bn and increasing every year on housing benefit, it actually makes sense to borrow some cash, and invest in housing (ideally social housing) so we can get that bill down long term. Likewise on keeping profit making services inside the public sector - financially alone it simply doesn’t make sense to sell off the Land Registry, Ordnance Survey etc when they contribute to the exchequer. The only reason to sell them is to get a one-off boost to make it look like the budget deficit is decreasing faster than it actually is.

Small beans perhaps in the grand scheme of a £780bn budget, but those are the kinds of seeds that might be able to sow a perception of competence and financial literacy if nurtured properly, particular if the economic costs of May’s chosen approach to Brexit can start to be emphasised too.

Even so, the whole thing is still difficult-difficult-lemon-difficult for not just Corbyn, but Labour as a whole to solve.

#44

I should have said fifteen years ago.

#45

Harking back to when it was just the 3rd most important issue then?

Anyway - you’re correct that the 90s was a bit of a dormant time for concerns about immigration and they’ve shot up the list in a remarkable fashion. But the idea that this is a) because it was influenced chiefly by the media/UKIP or b) comparable to renationalising railways just doesn’t make sense. These things all exist in a cycle of importance at different times.

#46

Yeah I didn’t add a paragraph that I was meant to which said that these challenges facing Corbyn, although different, are of similar levels of greatness to those facing ‘the moderates’ or whatever. And all linking back to the point about how the centre-left responds to the particular political challenges of today etc. etc.

#47

I think the biggest irony of the whole of the last 13 months or so of civil war is that most of the challenges facing Corbyn and the moderates are actually the same at their core, they’ve just got different flaws in their approaches to addressing them. The whole thing can basically be boiled down to groups of people shouting at each other about the the best way to put out a fire while the house burns down because they’re too engrosed in the argument to put any water on it…

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#48

Yeah. Although my feeling on this analogy is that the moderates will at least stop the gaff burning down as badly, I suppose. How inspiring.

Although I’ve linked to this piece about a million times, I shall link to it again because it’s probably the most perceptive on the issue I’ve read https://www.ft.com/content/427cd7de-6dcb-11e6-a0c9-1365ce54b926

#49

Yeah and migration’s never going to get much traction in a time of booming economy and low unemployment.

#50

Yep. Although I can’t be bothered to look for another graph that ‘concerns about immigration’ trendline seems remarkably similar to the ‘net migration in the UK’ trendline over the similar timeframe (as in the line moves up quite sharply during the 2000s).

#51

I knew this’d somehow be Corbyn’s fault.

#52

We’ll be having by-election soon as our local (Caterham Valley) councillor resigned on Monday for family reasons. Our area has been Lib dem for 16 years but she only beat the Tories by 24 votes last time. Hopefully it won’t go to them.

There are rumours a local residents group will run. In nearby Oxted a residents group ousted the Tories last time. Plus Caterham in the hill are also having a by-election as the Conversative councillor quit to join a residents group.

So three adjoining areas could has resident councilllors soon.