Corbyn!

I think you’re bang on. And also the reason why Reeves’ article isn’t as clear as it should be re: immigration being a red line is because she’s saying it through gritted teeth owing to the disconnection between what she thinks her constituents want and what she actually believes. And voters can smell that discomfort a mile off.

Corbyn?

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In pog form!

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Except that the Tories have comprehensively failed to meet all of the arbitrary immigration targets that they’ve set themselves, so anyone who trusts them to deliver on that is totally deluded…

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Right, which is why between an unconvincing Labour party that fails to convince people of the value of internationalism, and a disingenuous Conservative party that exploits the rhetoric of race politics but will never deliver on it, we as a country are flirting with nationalism.

Agreed, and yet everything out there shows that they’re far more trusted anyway, which shows just how foolhardy it is for Labour to go chasing over in that direction. If Labour want to finally address their problems on immigration properly they need to do it by setting out the debate on their own terms, not someone else’s (and again, on a previous thread I’ve also discussed how hard and potentially long term this would be).

Exactly. Owen Smith’s anti-immigrant rhetoric (while at the same time claiming he represents a pro-European vision), has been really grubby, and is just repeating the same mistakes the Miliband leadership made in its attempts to tack right.

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Yup. Of all his missteps that was easily the most egregious.

on a related point, I don’t think I’ve seen anyone’s political credibility be restored faster than Ed. He was an appallingly electoral strategist and a weak leadership candidate who should never get near a leadership position again, but Smith and May have made him look fantastic by comparison.

Mumsnet!

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someone needs to ask him about calling a child Balonz

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Owen Smith says he wasn’t in favour of the leadership challenge :')

challenging the Labour leader and losing IS more crucial than the NI peace process. thanks Owen!

TBF to him, I can see an intended context where that isn’t actually a ridiculously stupid thing to say, but again devoid of any kind of context, it’s another gaff that just shows how far Smith is from having the required control of language.

Owen Smith’s been SO bad during this campaign that I actually now regret having voted for him. Now reached the conclusion that literally no problem that the Labour party faces would be improved with him at the helm. All over the place on policy. All over the place on language. Strategically inept at positioning.

Still think he’s generally alright overall - he’s just been wretched in this leadership campaign.

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It’s been quite cringeworthy watching tbh.

Sure has.

It’s also been a bit cringeworthy seeing the Jeremy worship at the hustings for me too, I have to say.

you don’t have to say

Fuck, you’re right!

Yes, kind of makes me squirm too, but that’s from the voters not the candidate

anyone watching #corbyngate? cracking bit of banter about ISIS from jezza there.