#61

But in all honesty the Labour party can handle the odd anarchist and and libertarian, as long as the party is on a even keel and functioning well. The problem we have at the moment is that almost every expression of the party is steeped in self loathing. Until people come to terms with the fact that New Labour had significant flaws that should not be repeated but that it did do some significant good and that the people who took part in it weren’t actively evil, then we won’t be capable of rational discourse and everything is going to inspire a hysterical response.

Smith has turned out to be an incredibly undercooked candidate and it has been incredibly depressing watching his haphazard descent as a credible politician, but it’s got nothing on the utter horror that was retroactively disenfranchising new members, suing members, and now purging members. It’s awful. The only good thing about it is that Corbyn’s team seem to be preparing to address it internally after the contest, which ironically is the professional and practical thing to do.

#62

Yeah it happened to me on my last reply and I was thinking I’d barely even been in here!

#63

No, you don’t get it. It’s that he’s gone to Morocco that’s the problem.

The mention of Marrakesh was step to far for me. But as you say probably true

#64

You’re going to have to redo that so I have the first clue what’s going on, sorry.

#65

I don’t think I quoted properly…

e: probably best to just ignore the whole thing…

#66

You definitely didn’t but you also seemed to include extra text and stuff.

To quote hit reply under the post then hit the Quote button on the menu list

#67

Ahhhhhhh.

I’ve forgotten what I was talking about, now.

#68

I’m probably going to get Geoff’s warning in a minute…

This is true, and I think that two inverse things are also true - some people who seek to bring Labour back towards the centre ground also need to realise that the vast majority of people who’ve moved the terms of internal debate to the left aren’t seeking to destroy the party, take it back to the 80s and that they do care about being elected, they just believe that it takes something different to achieve that.

Similarly, I think both extremes of the party need to become far more self-critical. There’s too many people on the “New Labour” side who still don’t appear to understand why Blairism (and I mean this in the literal sense) is no longer a winning ideology and that for all the good things it did do, there were plenty of things it got wrong; that there’s both good and bad lessons to learn from it. Similarly on the left, I think there’s still not enough appreciation of how important messaging is, how even when trying to do “new politics” it still has to leverage some of the old or a sense that while doing something radical some compromises may still need to be made. The balance between the two sides isn’t there yet.

As for no evil people in New Labour, we’re excluding Mandleson from that, right :slight_smile:?

I think his is a cautionary tale of what happens when a decent, capable but fairly ordinary politician puts themselves out there before they’ve gained years of experience in the public eye. Same goes for Leadsom (although I’d probably choose different adjectives to describe her). He wasn’t anywhere near ready for this, although it’s to his credit that he hasn’t cracked entirely during the campaign.

I’m (very) cautiously optimistic that if a ceasefire breaks out over the next couple of months that Corbyn’s team are going to go about things in general in a slightly more professional and “by the book” manner. Certainly some recent messaging seems to suggest they accept some of the more tempered criticisms. Whether they follow through and it’s enough to be accepted by the PLP and media and whether they can keep a lid on the more egregious gaffes remains to be seen.

I fear though, that the damage inflicted over the last few months has caused fissures that are going to take years to receed in the public’s mind, even if a lasting peace does come from all of this.

1 Like
#69

I know a few people who are active in Bristol Labour, and there’s a sense of real disbelief about the councillors and activists purged from here. Ironically, it seems that the purges have caused a bit more unity in the local party at least, as people who have been arguing about the leadership contest are all united in opposing these.

There’s definitely room for some heavy handed satire available for wanting rid of Corbyn due to unelectability, then purging away one of the major electoral successes under his leadership. Bristol was always low hanging fruit for a left leaning labour party, but it still had to be picked.

#70

#FEAR the new boards + Corbyn, people:

#71

And theo’s 1337 quoting skillz. :wink:

#72

Weirdly, I’m not sure why it fucked that up, but it seems like nested quoting only works beyond one level if they’re all in one block.

Basically I think there are rogue carriage returns that get in and break it.

#73

she seemed to backtrack when challenged and then claim it was only the Marrakesh part - although having specifically mentioned Ulysses in the original tweet it doesn’t hold much water, and I saw her eventually tweet something about “Well I prefer books that I can understand”.

#74

it’s almost as if they haven’t thought this one through…

i’m yet to catch up on these latest purges but this is all pretty transparent from labour HQ to absolutely everyone surely? they’re flailing about trying to get corbyn voters off the voting list, and a shitload of people are getting caught in the crossfire. completely laughable that people who’ve posted in support of other parties BEFORE membership are getting retroactively punished - if these were entryists then surely that should have been caught when they joined? it’s just so flagrant, and i hope those behind it are held responsible.

the most glaring and egregious instance of this shambles has got to be sainsbury’s 2 million quid donation to the LDs in the run-up to the referendum that went completely ignored by HQ. wonder why…

#75

David Miliband to the (International) rescue! http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2016/09/new-times-david-miliband-why-left-needs-move-forward-not-back

(Says little of note that hasn’t been said a thousand times over the last year - barely worth intervening)

John Mann in forthright views shock!

This is probably the most perceptive thing Mann’s said in years. I’m still surprised that more Labour MPs haven’t said (and behaved) on the same basis.

#76

Upward, not forward!

1 Like
#77

Another instalment of Labour MPs pandering to idiots in a desperate bid for votes:

#78

That first paragraph can be read two completely different ways…

#79

He’s done a shadow cabinet reshuffle. I’m sure promoting Diane Abbott and Shami Chakrabrati won’t provoke any sexism or racism from the usual quarters in the press etc.

#80

Ah lol, eagerly searched Jess Phillips (since she basically made her name criticising Jezza C for being a massive sexist, not putting any women in the “four main offices” or whatever)…

She never disappoints.