#143

I’ve searched the thread, only seen the words inference and assumption used by you, I said infer once and think appropriately. Also don’t really like it when people critice people in terms of verbal reasoning or vocabulary

3 Likes
#144

There certainly is. Also important I think as others have said far more eloquently that I could possibly manage, many other things matter as well as the kind of joke too; context, whether it actually lands, whether it has a valid point to it, whether the language chosen is necessary for it to work and so on.

That’s not to say that someone can’t be offended or upset by it just because it could be justifiable, rather the opposite; that’s all the more reason for writers of all kinds (not just comedians) to take care with how they approach race and similar subjects and even more care when they chose to use difficult language, knowing that it could have unintended impact on individuals.

I’ve a lot of sympathy for the argument oft made by comedians that no topic should be too taboo to talk about in a stand up show, but at the same time, I’m yet to hear a joke or routine relating to rape that’s made me laugh or feel anything but disgust at my fellow humans for laughing at such lazy material.

4 Likes
#145

Yup, very good post.

I hate edginess in comedy for the sake of edginess but I genuinely think that nothing else has the same power to change minds as good, intelligent stand-up. The fact is that it’s sorely lacking though and the immediate jump to get defensive from the industry any time there’s a controversy means there isn’t likely to be an increase of it any time soon either.

#147

I also think that assume is fine.

Any way leave me alone, I think it is really inappropriate that you are turning a thread about racism into a thread about my misunderstanding of your post. I know you will probably say it is me doing that, but read the thread back, I am just replying to your direct question/criticisms of my initial quite reasonable misunderstanding

3 Likes
#148

…

5 Likes
#151

9 Likes
#152

I ‘jumped’ on a post directly criticising me for not knowing the difference between assume and infer, I think I do, even if I don’t I don’t really care.

IN THE GRAND SCHEME OF THINGS DOES IT REALLY MATTER IS SOMEONE USES ASSUME AND INFER CORRECTLY AS LONG AS PEOPLE GET THE JIST WHO CARES

3 Likes
#154

I am sorry for that poll I regret it. You think it is weird, well I did it because I felt like you were attacking me in this thread and I wanted to know whether others agreed with you or not, so don’t mischaracterise that as weird and aggressive.

Anyway, if the poll had been left open do you really think using the word assume instead of infer would have affected the outcome?

#156

this has gotten very very embarrassing lads

6 Likes
#157

[quote=“DarwinBabe, post:114, topic:16202”]
I generally get told I write extremely clearly on a regular basis
[/quote] …

:sunglasses:

#158

FWIW, I think your behavior in this thread has been very polite in fairly aggressive circumstances. I don’t even think you overstepped the line with the poll, since you were accused of being unreasonable, so appealing to a wider group was your best method of testing that reasonableness.

7 Likes
#159

I’m sure this thread is exactly the sort of debate Kitson was hoping his routine would provoke …

#160

feels like there’s no way for folks to be conciliatory without getting blasted or mocked.

1 Like
#161

thanks, I still regret the poll I know I wouldn’t like being on the receiving end of one, but it was defensive I wanted people to back me up because it was one of those ‘am I crazy?’ situations, thought I had made a reasonable mistake and was made to feel unreasonable for it, and felt that was unnecessary in the context of this thread. but in defending myself against being unreasonable I implied DB’s (don’t want to @ here in case it is unwelcome) phrasing was unclear, I know I would probably react similarly if someone I was debating with did that to me, and so then there was a weird feedback loop between the unreasonable/unclear arguments and it spiralled down to this. I’m going to take a break from here for awhile, I get into these kind of exchanges far too often and they genuinely make me feel terrible, fear seeing a notification, I don’t practice what I preach, my whole thing is that people should be less staunch and more open to others opinions rather than assuming there is one right way, but then I argue my points far too tenaciously

1 Like
#162

go to bed guys

1 Like
#163

i made these for everyone, let’s all relax eh

:coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee: :coffee:

:cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie: :cookie:

#164

^This can’t be for reals, surely? Or have I been sucked into the misinterpretation vortex, too?

“he should have played it safe”

Kitson ain’t Michael MacIntyre or Miranda Hart, churning out beige lowest common denominator stuff for the TV dollar. And everyone who goes and sees him knows that. So a suggestion to ‘play it safe’ seems a tad pointless.

Can’t really defend him specifically on this routine* (not having seen it personally), but he’s not Peter Kay, either, so everything points to this not being a case of ‘LOL, remember when people used to say P*** shops?!’. From seeing other Kitson stuff, and reading his mailing list chat, it seems unlikely that he hasn’t given the choice of words for this routine* some very serious consideration.

Which brings me to the asterisks. DK’s material (that I know of) is hardly a succession of jokes - so the references I’ve seen upthread and in linked articles to ‘Kitson’s joke about…’ have a whiff of being misrepresentative before we even get to considering any comment on the actual content of DK’s performance.

Again, I’m not putting together a defence here (because that simply can’t be done without seeing the routine). More outlining my starting point in terms of how I’m processing this discussion, I suppose, whilst mulling over what a distinctly odd thread this has been. Feels like it’s been lifted from DiS from five years ago.

Blah.

2 Likes
#165

can’t sleep so want to make a final clarification on where I am coming from as I’m sure it will get picked up by the day shift tomorrow and I don’t really want to back then.

Looking back I can see how my post: “My mistake, but really feel like it was an easy mistake to make and how most people would have understood your post though” was a bit snippy, and this terrible tangent wouldn’t have happened if I had just left it at “my mistake” but I was already slightly annoyed because of the number of posts it took to get to the point.

I guess I am used to when someone misunderstands another person, the other person just clarifies regardless of whether they think they were clear enough in the first place just to move the discussion along, rather than refuse to see how a misunderstanding could have taken place and draw out the error over several posts, as the later just makes the misunderstander feel stupid. In a thread where I had made several sincere posts about a subject that I am very sensitive about, it just felt a little hostile to do that, and totally tangential to the discussion at hand. maybe it was totally wrong of me to perceive that as hostile and DB (still not @ing in case its unwelcome) genuinely just couldn’t understand how anyone could interpret her post as I did. But anyway, that was my thinking behind “really feel like it was an easy mistake to make and how most people would have understood your post though” and my general defensiveness in this thread.

Not my finest hour I will admit

2 Likes
#166

The bores who’ve participated in this shitshow of a subthread should all be permanently banned.

2 Likes
#167

So he’s taking the piss out of his parents for thinking they were being right-on and respectful for saying the Sikh shop instead ?

I personally get confused about what my own true intentions are about things all the time (especially when there’s money involved) so even if in writing he thought ‘ok it might upset a few people but it’s still worth saying’, if an actual real live person came out and said that the performance of it evoked fear and shame the way she did I wouldn’t use it again in my show