#27

I was just saying that I trust your judgement, as I didnt recall the post you made but trust you on it.

#32

Fucking hell

#33

Hi DarwinBabe,

This isn’t how I remember it, but I was going through a very distressing time when this all came to light, which does not excuse anything I may have said or done that was untoward.

As I remember it, you were only banned because you turned very aggressive toward me and other users for questioning Conor’s defence and posting things that could get yourself and these forums into legal hot water (something I definitely cannot afford). Meanwhile, his response - I think - suggested that he wasn’t in the same country when it happened. It seemed like people were very quick to destroy his career, which was totally fair enough.

I apologise if I did not live up to my own standards. I apologise if I did not believe what he was being accused of. I apologise if I over reacted and got involved in a discussion that no man has a plan to get involved in.

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#34

I did not sign off on the Cabbage review. I did not know it was running. I took publicly apologised for that review.

I do not over oversight of what the site runs. I haven’t been very involved in the site for much of the past decade for a variety of reasons.

#36

Just looked back at the thread, and I would say that mostly I was offering some journalistic rigour, pointing to an article on Jezebel that looked at the claims.

In hindsight, the interview I think was set up before these allegations, and I don’t even know if the interview took place or piece was published in the end, as I imagine he probably cancelled all promo.

#37

This was the article I had read and shared, which had informed my way of thinking.

#38

Think that article was after the dis interview. There was an earlier Jezebel article about his defence, framed as how people trawl people’s social media to discredit them, but at that point the allegations were still in play

#40

Which artist?

#41

Probably easiest if you read through the last 50 posts or so of the Ryan Adams thread for context and to refresh your memory, but DB is referring to Connor Oberst. There’s a couple of links in there that you may find helpful to digest.

#42

Ok, I haven’t had time to read the thread as I’ve been at work and it’s lot to process.

Weren’t the claims about Conor confused at the time (he wasn’t in the country when some acts were said to have taken place) and also later revealed to be without foundation?

#43

I can’t speak for the former (the whole thing passed me by at the time and I only really became aware this week when Theo referred to it.

The latter is true but it’s not really the point - at the time no-one knew if they were true or not and the point that was being made is that given the level of the accusations DiS shouldn’t have supported the press tour as it appeared like an attempt to gaslight the accusers. DB put this far more eloquently in one of the linked pieces from the Ryan Adams thread.

Appreciate you’re busy, but would suggest a look when you do have a chance - it’s probably worthy of your time and thoughts when you can.

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#44

I don’t think it was as clear cut as that, if I remember correctly people questioned it because there was no bright eyes gig at the location on the specific date (which was her birthday so a known date), however it later transpired there was a desaparecidos one, so that didn’t really discredit her. The details in the Jezebel article on Oberst’s court case is what a lot of people cite, but that was his side and never reached a verdict, so think it is fair to say the potential for guilt did still exist at that point

#45

I have no replied in the other thread, not that either of these things or I, am relevant to Paul Draper or Ryan Adams.

#47

I’ve been thinking about your posts pretty much since I got up, but given the place I’m in today, I can’t give you the coherent response you deserve.

There’s a lot to digest and respond to and I don’t feel I’m able today to structure my thoughts in a way that make enough sense, but I will just say one thing re your surprise that people don’t remember or weren’t aware of stuff. I think it’s near to not be aware of the general tone of behaviour back then, but it’s very easy for people to not remember specific incidents - something might happen on the music board that’s never mentioned on social or vice versa, or it may be about an artist that we don’t care about so we didn’t click. I only picked up the Connor Oberst allegations recently because they were mentioned by Theo (I think) in another thread, and even then I haven’t delved in further. Why? Because I listened to Bright Eyes a bit about 15 years ago and pretty much never since because I found other more interesting acts.

I think there’s also a problem that most of us suffer of cognitive dissonance. We (as a group) have moved on a long way, but that doesn’t necessarily mean we confront - or even remember - our past. If it was the norm and not notable, it probably hasn’t made much of an impact on long term memory for individuals. It’s easy to acknowledge the general pattern, and I think there’s a consensus there, but many are shocked when we see the specifics simply because that was just how discourse was on here at the time and we didn’t internalise it.

At the time I was trying to tone police you and others (probably mainly Wishpig), I genuinely thought I was trying to be helpful in trying to find a place where I thought your points would be more likely to land. Obviously, I now understand that it wasn’t my place to steam in and tell you how to get your message or story across, nor to try and mediate your anger. I tended to avoid a lot of the more toxic parts of DiS out of discomfort and probably a sense of not wanting to rock the boat of a community that even back then offered me something (not nearly as much as DiS today does, mind!). Clearly it’s not right that I just ignored it and that’s something on my conscience.

I guess what I’m saying is that we’re going through that phase - both on here and culturally generally where we’re still learning from our past. Different people will do that in different ways - some people just mentally block out their past, others confront it. For me the outcome is more important than asking someone to confront their past. However, that’s kind of irrelevant given I’m speaking as a cis white male - something that a decade ago I simply didn’t understand. If it helps victims/survivors/individuals to ask people to confront stuff then it’s simply not my place to say otherwise.

(I think this has turned out to be the unstructured nonsense I didn’t want without even going onto wider issues that I think deserve to be addressed. apologies.)

4 Likes
#48

I was unaware until this thread. I guess because I’m not interested in his music and just didn’t happen to read the sort of sites where this will have been reported at the time.

#50

Honest answer? I would guess because it’s not happening in a ‘hot topic’ Social Board thread. I’m only here because a friend sent me a DM on Twitter the other day (we have a common friend who was a big Ryan Adams fan as a teenager) and I wanted to find out a bit more about the allegations yesterday.

#51

There are generally less posts in the music board, and this thread is called “Ryan Adams 2019” which will probably lead to a lot of people not reading it.
Personally I haven’t replied as much as the terms of discussion are being shifted and it’s hard to keep track of.

#53

The current policing of the boards affects everyone and people are always going to get involved in something that affects them right now. Also it was the social board - the music board is never going to see that kind of engagement.

I was entirely silent when it came to these threads back in the day - I didn’t engage in much of anything other than dumb jokes. I was too socially anxious to get involved in much of anything (though perfectly content to this posts I’d be ashamed to put my name to now - not so much in these threads but certainly in the more general discussions on misogyny). I’m silent now because I don’t feel I have anything of worth to add to these discussions. I can’t imagine what feelings seeing people who belittled your opinion and shut you down doing an about turn without any kind of acknowledgement must trigger but I can’t see how I can get involved in a useful manner tbh.

(And I know it’s not your job to direct me either, I’m just explaining my own absence from the thread).

#54

I read the thread this morning after seeing the Laura Snapes article, and was going to write something, but pretty much word-for-word would echo the second paragraph here. Not sure what else I’d be able to contribute.

#55

Tbf most the replies I read ( only the first 10 or.so) seemed to be pretty logical.

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Ryan Adams is a prick (rolling)