Do you think leaders/politicians have 'charisma' or do they just say what people want to hear?



I mean it’s usually a given that Hitler was really charismatic. But it also seems like basically he was just saying stuff that a lot of people thought but didn’t get said. We certainly know that Europe had a HUUUUUGE streak of antisemitism and countries just naturally seem to breed large sections of the population who think anyone foreign is suspicious.

And Farage has also been termed charismatic, but when all’s said and done he only ever seems to have spouted out headlines and articles from the most popular tabloids, i.e. opinions that were already held by a large section of the population.

If someone is a really charismatic leader, surely they should be able to get the public to vote for FULL COMMUNISM even though no one really believes in that (or so it seems)?


Pendulum wings back and forth, dunnit.

So you have a period of left, then anti-movement and a period of right to counter it.

As long as the majority of the population can eat and have a roof over their heads, I think you could put in place any mental framework and we’d accept it.


Charisma as a concept doesn’t exist in the real world outside of a select few members of the WWE


I think you mean popular Role-Playing Game phenomenon ‘Dungeons & Dragons’.

But I mean on a personal level it’s definitely there. Some people are charming. I just don’t know whether leaders necessarily get to apply theirs too much. Like if Corbyn had ended up doing what Farage does I think maybe we’d all consider him some kind of weird charismatic leader?


the later, always thought it was ridiculous that hitler/nazis get singled out as the source of evil, rather than tapping into attitudes that were already there, and doing things many other countries were engaged in (although obviously they did take it much further)


I think it’s a perception thing there. I’ts not that they get ‘singled out’ so much as they are something you can hang this sort of stuff on. I mean ‘other countries were engaged in’ is your answer here. Whoever said, “I really hate those bastards in other countries engaging in shady non-specific bad stuff”? A focus provides us with someone to single out. And it’s also a good object lesson that people can apply elsewhere. Certainly it did a good job of making lots of other countries reconsider their own attitudes.


Can we have a list of people who are frequently called charismatic when they are actually just cunts.

Robbie Williams
Jose Mourinho
Kevin Pietersen

Any more?


Dr. King
Malcolm X


Alright Billy Joel.




I just think the uk history of colonialism and americas pursuit of eugenics etc are rarely referenced in association with nazi Germany’s, obviously historians and academics write about that stuff but the general public perception is goodies vs baddies with hitler as the origin not part of a wider thing


hitler definitely ranted and raved on a level completely beyond anything farage does

but yeah obviously he tapped into things people wanted to hear - jobs for all, treaty of versailles bad, anti-semitism, make germany great again, etc etc

people must see things in farage, though, right? I mean otherwise other leaders of ukip would be as successful?

in conclusion, I dunno, nor do I know if it’s an either/or as you are presenting


I think Obama is genuinely charismatic - I was always struck by it as soon as I became aware of him running for President

I think other politicians - on TV/ in the commons etc maybe it doesn’t come across so strongly - but I imagine if you find yourself in a 1 on 1 with a lot of them you would find them charming and persuasive - as they are so well practiced in their line or work at being charming and persuasive


Facism was more then just saying what people wanted to hear though. It’s about bringing out the fury and indignation in people. It’s about manipulating the work view with a properganada machine in culture and the media to reinforce a narrow world view. It’s about creating a brotherly pride in people while harnessing outward aggression towards others

Look at what the futurists did at thier theatre events in italy. It’s insane stuff about bringing out the violence in people. It’s arguably the only ever successful political art movement.


Let’s not do this.


Obama is a good call actually. He genuinely seems/seemed to get people on side.


You see I think the point is that he’s fucking shit at this. Like he genuinely hasn’t really got any strong ideas. He’s rubbish when you see him having argue with people in hustings or whatever.

But he knows what ‘sells’ so he just regurgitates that sort of ‘water cooler’ rubbish. The thing with other leaders is they will actually have a clue, they will want to govern or to do SOMETHING so they’ll actually put their own ideas in play.


People are always picking on Hitler and the Nazis!


That’s not what I meant, they are obviously responsible for some of the worst humanity has ever done, I just think it is dangerous to see it as an anomily


I know, I was taking the piss.

But at the same time, I think it’s very dangerous to hand wave the Holocaust as another bad thing amid generally unenlightened times. Yes, colonialism was horrendous and cannot be excused. But the industrial slaughter of a group of people in under a decade pretty much is unprecedented in its scale and singleminded hideousness.