#43

It’s still Hammock - Dissonance

#44

There’s another way of looking at this.
I’m guessing that there aren’t that many DiS writers. Would you expect a bunch of guys to check their collective favourite tunes for inclusivity?

I’m getting the impression that the reasons some people here have a problem are that Sean chose these tunes for a radio show and called the thread Drowned In Sound’s Tracks of the Year. Does this warrant a check for inclusivity?

To me, it’s just a playlist. Based on a few guys’ preferences. I wouldn’t expect them to check the rolling hip-hop thread or anything else to make sure the list is inclusive enough. I don’t see it as Sean’s responsibility to represent the diversity of the entire Music Board every time he posts something.

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#45

In choosing a list thats 90% white he is representing the diversity of the board quite well…

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#46

Should’ve at least found room for this tbh

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#47

Of course I’m not suggesting racism isn’t systemic, and of course music journalism is not exempt from it. Far from it. But again, I think you are failing to understand how this list - which is not definitive in any, or meant to be representative - came to be made. It was made by a bunch of writers submitting ONE TRACK each. Sean merely compiled them into one list, and played some of them on the radio. Just because I, or Sean, or anyone else didn’t pick a Kendrick or Frank Ocean track over something by Nick Cave or Radiohead or any of the others, does not make us racist - surely you can see that’s a ridiculous suggestion?

So it’s not “me” or “DiS” or “Sean” championing whiteness - there’s no agenda here, no hidden subconcious racism. And why shouldn’t Sean, or me, get defensive when we’re accused of being racist? It’s exactly like jeremyirony says. Look at it this way - I have to submit my Top 10 AOTY for various different publications. Do you think i sat down and thought, before anything, “I have to make sure these 10 are a 50/50 split for gender and race”? Or do you think I simply picked what are, for me, the 10 best albums? Does that make me racist? Sexist? And for the record, Frank Ocean and Blood Orange are on there, as is ANOHNI & Anna Meredith. And yes, before you say it, I have listened to a lot of hip hop this year, but it doesn;t grab me in the same way as some other music - that’s just my personal taste and opinion. Your’s, or Sean’s, or anyone’s on here, might be different, but tha’ts ok. What’s NOT is calling racism or sexism everytime just because you perceive that a list was not made according to your acceptable criteria.

#48

Hi.

I hate really, really dislike seeing the critique of racism being reduced to a morality (“you should do this”, “you have a responsibility to do that”, “you’re a terrible person for not doing X”), but people responding to that kind of moralism with defences along the lines of “the intention was this”, or “no one meant it as that” are just as tedious.

If you’re not really, you know, a fan of racial prejudice (among other forms of intolerance), the sensible response to those critiques is maybe not defensiveness but something along the lines of like: “yeah, you’re right. It’s pretty sad that inequality and prejudice is so ingrained that the seemingly banal practices of aesthetic judgement and personal taste can be skewed along racial (e.g.) lines even on the part of people who would otherwise want to challenge prejudice and champion diversity. How might we being to address and redress these banal, ingrained and unintentional forms of prejudice?”.

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#49

It was, and is only, a list of music that people chose because they liked it. Racial prejudice has NOTHING to do with it. If i suspected that any of our contributors were picking / writing about music with “racial prejudice”, they’d be banished - pure and simple.

Again, we do address imbalance and promote tolerance. Did you see the “Girl In The Band” post by Maddie Jones? I also commissioned Sinkane to write this week’s Fangasm on Funkadelic. What’s tedious to me is having this conversation every time a list chosen or based on ARTISTIC MERIT is reduced to a simple binary "there’s not enough x, y, or z in it2 and then automatically infer racism / sexism. We’re critics, and I’d like to think that everyone who contributes to DiS approaches things with an open mind, and reviews / writes based on artistic merit. So please, stop insinuating that we’re in some way contributing to racism/sexism/intolerance - we’re really not.

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#50

There’s a difference between explicit and implicit prejudice and biases. Like obviously no one’s suggesting that anyone actively decided against a particular artist (or I assume no one’s saying that)

#51

posted too early

…because of their skin colour or anything like that. Everyone carries implicit prejudices with them, it doesn’t make them bad people, but the best way to go about getting rid of them or limiting their impact is to appreciate their existence. Not get defensive when they’re pointed out

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#52

No, literally none :frowning:

#53

But why is the automatic assumption made that I have built in, implicit prejudices against music made by people of colour? Or by women? THAT’S what I, and Sean, find offensive. It’s the assumption that you’re all making: “Oh, he picked a song by white dudes, must be down to prejudice”. That, frankly, is utter nonsense.

Again, I have only ever picked anything, in any list ever, on the basis of artistic merit, and what I liked best. The colour, or gender, or religion, of the people / person making the music is, to me completely irrelevant - I trust my ears and my brain. Nothing more, nothing less.

#54

Well, if you’re not racist then you just have a shocking taste in music. Fucking Primal Scream? Garbage? The Kills? ‘American Valhalla’?

#55

Justice - Safe and Sound
The 1975 - Somebody else
The Avalanches - Frankie Sinatra
The Kills - Doing it to death
Metronomy - Night Owl
Meiyler Jones - How to recognise a work of art

#56

Why is the automatic assumption made that, whenever someone points out a certain kind of homogeneity in these lists, they are assuming that the compilers have built in, implicit prejudices against music made by people of colour? I mean, it’s come around to that argument, but that’s not where it began.

Look over those first few posts again.

Kallgeese: .#DiSsSoWhite

Sean: Just picked music I liked. My guests liked. And our writers liked. It wasn’t meant to be anything but a few tunes we’re into. Interesting that people reach to call you a racist, but wouldn’t call someone sexist if this was a wall to wall willy fest.

Kallgeese: I’m not saying you or the other writers are racist Sean…

Just imagine how else it might have gone:

Kallgeese: .#DiSsSoWhite

Sean: heh, yeah, 'tis a bit. Any suggestions on other great songs of the year that might help mix it up?

3 Likes
#57

DiS is so white it didn;t even include bIackstar in it’s Iist of the year! :wink:
onIy messing with u but hears a Iist of some ‘bIack music’ i’ve heard this year that i would recommend… (not sure now ‘new’ any of the acts are tbh!)

run the jeweIs released good shit in the Iast year (bi-raciaI hiphop - hahaha!)
haIf decent released a great double a side recently (white english hiphop)
prince released a record within this catchment period of the Iast year (dec15)
it had some of his best stuff in years - extraIovabIe, groovy potential and more.
Iiving colour had good ep recentIy - had a cover of B.I.G who shot ya?
kendra foster released a damn good album - think d’angelo, monae, soIange.
kooI keith had some great stuff this year including an mf doom coIIabo.
prophets of rage are mixed race/part hiphop and made some cooI stuff too.
i’m guessing a re-issue of bitches brew by miIes davis (or the OST) won’t count?

guessing there are tonnes of others… i rareIy thing of music in race terms anymore tbh so hiphop doesn’t read to me as any specific race. i also think if u hear misognyny in rap stiII then u are not trying to find good stuff in the same way as maybe u would another genre fuII of bad qualities/vaIues/Iyrics etc - not an accusation just a soft suggestion. there’s plenty of diverse hiphop out there! maybe u are relying on being fed too much by the mainstream (that does not even do hiphop so much as this weird dance/rap/pop amalgam these days!) when gaga ends up on a best of Iist it screams to me ‘too much pop!’. :wink:

#58

I tell you what then, we won’t bother using the Term “Best Of…” anymore for lists. Instead it will be “A List Of Music That We Have Checked For Proportionality Based On Race, Gender, Class, Sexual Orientation (And Any Other Category We’ve Missed), Artistic Merit Be Damned”. Would that make you happy?

#59

Opinions are like arseholes…everybody has one.

#60

not sure why sean mentioned women on the list to the question of racial homogeny.

it’s just stuff we’re into sounds like answer to white dominance in elite jobs- we just picked the best candidate.

#61

Not sure why I’m entering the fray on a Saturday evening, but this is a really odd response to what was a reasonable post.

As has been pointed out several times - and, in fact, in the very post you responded too - defensiveness is an unhelpful way to react to what was a fair observation. I don’t want to speak for @robluvsnic but this clearly isn’t about “what makes him happy”. The dismissive “Any Other Category We’ve Missed” also suggests you aren’t really grasping the point here.

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#62

Yeeeeeow! What a wonderful response.

Do you know what this list looks like? One driven by PR emails you’ve gotten throughout the year. DiS at this point exists as a vehicle for the forum in my eyes. In terms of musical criticism it hasn’t been relevant for many years and the above list bears this out.

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