#21

Or, you know, what DarwinDude says

#22

I think, based also on what @BobRickerton said above, it probably is best not to make too many assumptions about how the news broke. You are absolutely right to say that the victimsā€™ well-being is paramount.

Howeverā€¦Iā€™m not sure I agree with this. For a startā€¦a few people (like Sun Araw, who is referenced upthread) appear to have spoken about Mondanile very much like his behaviour was an open secret, Weinstein-style. It just seems really far-fetched to assume they had no idea what was going on. As for why they didnā€™t just stick by him instead of Pollisā€¦well we can only speculate without clarificationā€¦but I can imagine a scenario where failing to kick him out would look increasingly bad for them. Problem isā€¦it still does look bad for them.

#23

Again, absolutely loathe to appear like Iā€™m defending him in any way, but Iā€™m not sure comparing him to Weinstein is particularly helpful. Iā€™m not suggesting that there should be degrees of wrongdoing when it comes to sexual assault, and Mondanile is obviously a despicable human being, but it does not appear from the reports that his behaviour is on the same sort of level as what would appear to be a serial rapist, which may have been why it could have taken longer to come to light.

As you say, itā€™s entirely speculative, but Iā€™m just not sure that I agree with what seems to be an attempt (by SPIN, not you btw) to make Real Estate somehow complicit. They took action in relation to the situation prior to their hand being forced by any negative publicity angle, and again, in the circumstances Iā€™m not sure what else they could have done.

#24

Wrt to ā€˜open secretsā€™ you donā€™t really have to look far online to see whispers about similar underground figures who would be friends with/collaborate with/release on the same labels as mondanile. Itā€™s grim.

#25

Okay, so I understand that by making the link I invite comparison between the two on all levelsā€¦and at the moment the indications are that Mondanileā€™s crimes are not AS severe as Weinsteinā€™s (but obviously still immensely damaging, though none of us are denying that).

Despite that, the reason I made the link was because of the ā€œopen secretā€ thing. It is almost certainly true that fewer people knew about Mondanile than Weinsteinā€¦for a few reasons (smaller profile, shorter time-frame)ā€¦but enough people still knew (no-class expands on this below). With that in mind, surely his band mates would be aware? They may come out in the near future and explain their position furtherā€¦but if their story stick to ā€œwe were made aware of these accusations and promptly took actionā€ then Iā€™m not buying it.

#26

I do feel Real Estate have questions to answer on this one. However, this guy looks to be a highly manipulative and nasty character, itā€™s not beyond the realms of possibility that he kept his true nature hidden from the rest of the band - at least enough for them to think he was an anus but not a criminal. They may have tried to deal with his behaviour before, but he could of wormed his way out of it, played on their emotions, threatened them with legal action etc. There are many possibilities here, and RE may have made mistakes in how they handled things but iā€™d personally give them time to clarify before rushing to condemn.

1 Like
#27

with respect to other members of the scene:
there are, on a reddit thread, worse accusations against Mondanile, and which also implicate James Ferraro at least (with no concrete evidence, but the sound of plausibility - if not direct involvement, then at least knowing and turning a blind eye). There look to be very real questions about who knew what was going in and turned a blind eye to things that they should not hav, and those questions donā€™t apply only to real estate

#28

Think Iā€™m going to leave this here, tbh. As you say, RE will undoubtedly be asked to clarify their position very shortly, and until then itā€™s pure speculation. Iā€™m more inclined to give them some credit for kicking him out of their own volition, prior to being forced to by a ā€˜bad pressā€™ angle, rather than condemning them for not acting sooner and therefore being complicit, but either way, this will have almost certainly done them irreparable harm anyway, and Iā€™d be surprised if they carry on much longer as a band

1 Like
#29

Not sure I go along with this. Take. for example, the whole Ian Watkins/Lostprophets situation where apparently the rest of the band were unaware what Ian was up to. Clearly someone will go to extreme lengths to conceal their behaviour, especially from bandmates.

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#30

Apples and oranges man.
Mondanile was carrying out his behavious/attacks in public places like bars, gig venues and house parties where band members were present.
Because of the nature of Watkinsā€™ crimes, he did it all in private behind closed doors so it was much easier to hide it from the band.

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#31

Itā€™s not just RE though - I think searching questions might be asked of Domino Recordings, given that they allegedly dropped Ducktails - quietly and without any fanfare - after Mondanileā€™s Ducktails publicist alerted them to these allegations back in late 2015. No one - anywhere - noticed Mondanile had been dropped until his new album simply appeared on his own label a few weeks ago. Itā€™s as though it was done as quietly as possible.

I suspect there is a deeper iceberg here, full of industry types keen to keep a lid on this until it became impossible to do so.

3 Likes
#32

This is a good point, I am basing my judgements upon what they have said/done up until this pointā€¦and it is fair to assume this must be pretty conflicting for them, so it is only fair to judge them when the situation is clearer.

I think the thing isā€¦itā€™s not about just ā€œcondemningā€ people or working out who shares what portion of blameā€¦it should be about working out what went wrong and how it can be prevented in the future. In my opinion, based upon what has come to light so far, I think it would be good to see Real Estate come out and talk about their perspectiveā€¦potentially in a way that reflects on what they may have been able to do. This can only add to the conversation, and potentially make more men feel able to challenge this kind of thing.

#33

I might be wrong hereā€¦but I think Mondanileā€™s behaviour pretty easily ties into our male dominated culture and the way certain things are accepted etc etc.

Watkins, on the other hand, was obviously a depraved shit of the worst kind. That sort of thing doesnā€™t just get brushed over by othersā€¦so you definitely would keep it more hidden.

1 Like
#34

Not quite apples and oranges though - fairly sure Watkins groomed a number of his victims in public places whereas a lot of his more despicable crimes involving kids were done in privacy. Also it appears that although Mondanileā€™s attacks were done in public places, they were still done in fairly private areas (e.g. bathrooms). Granted Watkins and Mondanile are not directly comparable but think the point still stands in terms of them both being ā€˜publicā€™ figures in the music industry who have committed a series of attacks in a seemingly covertly manner so as to be (largely) undetected by their band mates.

In terms of both Watkins and Mondanile, I fail to understand how neither Lostprophets nor Real Estate picked up on any of their behaviour earlier (in the case of the former, they had absolutely no idea what was going on until his arrest).

#35

:face_with_raised_eyebrow:

#36

heh, yep Iā€™m not the only one who misinterpreted what desmond said upthread

#37

Probably sounds a bit contradictory (ahem) but the point Iā€™m making is that it seems extremely odd that both LP and RE didnā€™t pick up on their band matesā€™ behaviour (which is the bit Iā€™m failing to understand) but it appears, on the face of it, that it was the case in both circumstances (without evidence to prove the contrary). Iā€™m inclined to believe both bands rather than taking a ā€œthereā€™s no way this could have happenedā€ approach.

#38

Rereading this it sounds a bit ā€˜duhā€™ but i refer to rumours about certain unsavoury characters/behaviour, not just enablement, which is bad enough in itself.

#39

Okayā€¦Iā€™m not :wink: This is the third time Iā€™ve mentioned him butā€¦Sun Araw has stated he heard a number of rumours about Mondanileā€™s behaviourā€¦and that was through being part of the same scene (i.e. being in the same band; surely the exposure is much higher). Iā€™m not necessarily saying they KNEW what was going on and turned a blind eyeā€¦but I think itā€™s reasonable to assume they heard these rumours and chose to ignore them/not act upon them.

#40

Erm, you quite literally said:

which is the only thing Iā€™m finding slightly objectionable. Your other points re ā€œworking out what went wrong and how it can be prevented in the futureā€, I couldnā€™t agree with more