#275

Strongly disagree.
If you’re a fence sitter on climate change, you’re of no value.
XR should be trying to mobilise as many of the inactive people who care passionately about climate change as possible.
They should also be trying to radically shift the positions of eg the Labour Party, trade unions, the liberal media, etc.
They shouldn’t be going after swing voters in key marginals, they’re not the Lib Dems.

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#276

Was anyone saying that though?

Capitalism is the system we currently have, there’s not a lot of point spending time discussing the relative merits of feudalism or whatever.

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#277

no, and if anything, the hierarchic structures in Britain and Europe before industrialisation was the reason capitalism took hold so quickly here

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#278

YES!!

#279

how does a self-described apolitical movement with a huge middle class presence and a cavalier attitude to the material interests of potential recruits do that, tho?

it all seems so maddeningly confused, and i think the reason is because they can’t or don’t want to identify an enemy, for very specific reasons

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#280

So everyone who cares have always been passionate supporters their whole lives? No-one was persuaded/educated/converted?

People change for lots of reasons. They get older, wiser (sometimes), they educate themselves, they are educated by others. Are we not trying to change public behaviour as well as government policy?

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#281

i have and everyones arguing against it

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#282

:smiley:

Personally I believe that if the purpose was to hit companies in the wallet then they chose poorly because the companies involved will be vastly less affected (probably barely at all) than the precarious workers involved.

But it’s not me out there doing the direct action

#283

image

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#284

Sorry, haven’t read the whole thread so this may not be news.

Chatted to an XR pal this morning who said that 92% of members rejected action against trains. I’m surprised 8% thought it was a good idea to be honest.

This’ll happen in any non-heirarchical organisation but I agree it’s not necessarily helpful short-term. Long term it’ll probably be forgotten.

#285

“not as weird a take as thinking that blocking public transport is a better approach than blocking cars or whatever”

Soz, I meant who was it that said that?

#286

I don’t know for certain though, I just guessed that the purpose of doing it in rush hour, in the financial district of the City, must certainly have been to disrupt capitalism as much as possible.

Unfortunately disrupting capitalism will always affect the poorest worst because capitalism punches all it’s problems down and as people have already said they’re the most vulnerable part of the system anyway but really that’s unavoidable isnt it.

#287

Imagine if they changed the name from ‘loose women’ to ‘loo swimming’

#288

Or Loose? Wo! Men!

#289

everyone who thinks this protest is a good idea?

#290

If the answer is “we’re only trying to change government policy”, remember that the government is very much beholden to public demand. If through climate protest we are able to move the population towards a greener destination then policy will begin to reflect this change in thinking.

If the answer is “we’d like to directly influence public behaviour as well” then protests against tram users is not going to help.

#291

It’s only beholden to public demand when people aren’t outside disrupting shit. When people are engaging in direct action they’re more beholden to that, as has been in the case in all of history, and literally a few months back when shutting a couple of roads off led a party whose base is scientifically illiterate climate change deniers to declare a climate emergency.

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#292

It’s not a dichotomy, though.

There have been plenty of protests blocking traffic, and this protest blocking public transport. I get your point to an extent, and this is definitely a controversial way of doing things, but people arguing that this is a protest that is legitimate specifically aren’t saying that we shouldn’t block vehicular traffic as well, so I think it’s reasonable to not portray those arguments as such.

edit just to say if I’m being a bit aggy, let me know. I’m trying to be less argumentative, but I definitely have a tendency to go off on one, which isn’t great, that so yeah… lemme know

#293

outside of London everyone would have had a lovely party and been happy to not be going to work.

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#294

well there’s declaring a climate emergency and there’s actually doing anything about it. We’re still building roads and trying to add runways because the public seem to want it to continue.