A thread to discuss the concept and possibilities of an independent Wales
So, what’s the current thinking when it comes to Welsh independence?
During my time living there (1997 - 2010ish) I was always under the impression that it wasn’t an especially popular concept and that also, generally “it wouldn’t work” - that people seemed to think it was beyond the bounds of possibility aside from a hardcore of Plaid voters.
Has there been a big shift in recent years or was my perspective always wrong?
It’s been posted elsewhere already, but this is a good piece:
So, I’m basically an inch away from joining YesCymru as they seem to be slightly less entwined with plaid and the welsh nats, they seem a good bunch but I’m not fully aware of their roots - they do seem to be a good example of a genuine grassroots swelling atm
I think, and people who aren’t Welsh or in Wales really don’t understand this - there’s actually a lot less sentimental attachment to the union here than in Scot or even NI.
There’s no sectarian loyalties, there’s really no communities that’ll get misty eyed about our historic union. There’s not a large landed gentry or ties to the Tories in the same way Scotland has and there’s nowhere near the same amount of Brits living in Wales. That’s why Labour have got it made in the Sennedd permanently really.
The argument really all centres around ‘can we’ rather than should we, because I have a feeling the unstoppable tide of ‘devolution max’ will make the UK split up of natural course even if Wales is likely the last one to go.
That said I have 1 friend who is very against it purely on the basis he doesn’t speak Welsh (neither do I tbf, and it is weird how since so many public jobs need bilingualism it’s becoming a class issue) he’ll be considered a 2nd class citizen. And of course the fallacy of relying on nationalism and borders when really it’s about autonomy. It’s an odd one.
This was the vibe I always picked up, there just seemed to be a general attitude that Wales was somehow too small / poor / didn’t “make” enough stuff or whatever to be its own going concern. But I was literally a school kid at the time so wasn’t exactly plugged into the latest in nationalist thought.
As a Welsh person who hasn’t lived there since 2005, I’m really curious about this, good thread idea.
We have so many great commodities we aren’t paid for - tidal/green energy and water distribution in particular. That being said our ‘national debt’ is so caught up in GBP for hundreds of years it’s hard to imagine us leaving the pound as a currency, or at least the welsh pound would be valued against gbp for a long time.
So we’d no doubt be able to run a healthcare system and taxation laws far, far better without such a corrupt layer of Tories present in UK economics but they’d be raising interest on us all the time. It’ll be tricky.
feels like it has gained momentum over the last year, partially down to Boris and his idiot mates being so laughable I think. I’ve definitely seen more friends / colleagues who were previously not really political starting to engage with the Yes campaign.
England is heavily dependent on Welsh water and there isn’t really any feasible way some parts of England could be supplied/sustained without it. Unless of course England decided to flood its own valleys and create reservoirs but can’t realistically see that happening. So just charge England loads of £/$/Welsh bucks and they should be alright
Alright, bad guy from Quantum of Solace
Is the likelihood of speaking Welsh related to class? I had no idea that was the case, interesting (genuine question/no sarcasm!)
Even twenty years ago when I moved there I remember my dad strongly considering learning Welsh (he worked in the media) as it was seen as a huge advantage for any job working in media / politics in Wales.
Kind of ironic since the rump of Welsh speakers were probably working class rural communities before that.
Not so much in the sticks but definitely in the most Anglicised bits of the South. Speaking Welsh has become more important in the last 20 years because a job in politics or the civil service or anything of high office etc requires bilingualism. The private schools and academies really focus on their kids getting a good grounding of Welsh because of it and the comps really haven’t especially down South.
Could probably Google this, but what are the differences in demographics between Welsh and non-Welsh people in different areas of Wales, and what impact does this have on feeling about independence? My parents live in North Wales and it feels very English.
It’s something that I’d never really thought too much about. I always had some vague notion that it just wasn’t really viable economically, coupled with a dislike of old school Plaid nationalism (as a first language Welsh speaker, moving to uni in Cardiff soon got rid of any kind of Welsh nationalist leanings I may have had - mostly due to the crowd who went to Clwb on Welsh-only Saturdays).
Now though, I think it’s something that has to be considered. I was hoping for a devolved socialist UK utopia but we’re clearly stuck with the Tories for a long time and Wales just has to do something.
So I will doing my homework on this.
Interesting to see the topic spread on my Facebook feed lately, via all kinds of different people I might not expect.
For the most part, the only emotional response for the Union will be from English people living in Wales which sets it apart from NI or Scotland. But most Welsh people never considered it possible or practical, so polling has always shown devolution is favoured here by the vast majority instead of independence. That is until the lockdown, and in the last few weeks its been polling higher than ever.
Swmae pawb, good idea for a thread (and a country)! I’m pretty heartily ‘ie’, I made the point in the Rona thread that the economic case for Indy Wales is actually pretty good and sustainable (one of only five global net energy exporters, water as @p_a_u_l mentioned). Think it’s getting more and more likely and, as @Ruffers said, there’s basically no unionism here so once a certain critical mass is reached it’ll be an easier sell than Scottish Indy. Interested to hear the thoughts of others
I’m interested to hear if I’ll be eligible to claim citizenship (lived there for over a decade, parents have been there for more than 20 years and still live there)
I’ll have a word, see what we can do