‼ ‼ GoT: THE FINALE ‼ ‼

I think I enjoyed s8 more than a lot of people, but mostly because it wasn’t s7. The writers clearly didn’t have a clue what they were doing though and seemed not to understand most of the characters. Just imagine if they had taken all the time spent on closeups of John Snow (and others) looking pensive during a battle in slow motion and done a proper full episode about Danny’s teetering sanity. Actually built up the heel turn in any way at all. Fuck, a shot of King’s Lansing’s commoners cheering and shouting abuse as Misanderi was beheaded would have done it. But no, just a nonsensical decision in the heat of battle.

The last episode reminded me of Lynch’s Dune, oddly enough, where 400 pages of story are condensed into a 5 minute montage.

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Watched the finale then read this thread again. What an enormous waste of time that was.

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The recent GoT Finale 1 year on podcast from Binge Mode was really good looking at all this.

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I also bailed on this and just checked to see where I ducked out - turns out I lasted 7 series, which surprised me. TWD was the most frustrating show I have ever watched. Whole series of nothing happening. I think that’s why I always find it surprising that people found GOT slow or meandering as it was nothing compared with TWD.

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I gave up after the first episode of season seven. So many episodes of nothing and then they introduce Negan and his baseball bat and I just walked then. What a wasted premise for a show.

That’s weird, that’s the exact moment I bailed too. Coincidence?

  • Yes
  • No, there’s a reason people bailed at that specific point

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Going to check this out, got (GoT!!! LOL) room in my head for a new podcast.

From the wiki, think I tuned out somewhere during series 7 too. I remember Eugene getting made to work for Negan, but definitely didn’t make it into s8. Might, MIGHT have a re-read. Still bitter about it all though.

I increasingly think GRRMs publishers should do the same. Either talking him into getting a ghost in or a writing team if he’s amenable, or just buy him out if he isn’t. Its so hard to land an epic arc and I think it’s completely legitimate to get the creative equivalent of a relief pitcher in to close things out with coherence. In the case of Martin, I don’t think he actually knows how to resolve the issue of what the tv series has done to the books and would love to make it someone elses problem.

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Sam coming in with that book at the end, jeez

Has this ever happened before? Can’t think of any case where someone has finished or taken control of a series outside of death or incapacitation of the original author.

Don’t think there’s any chance of this, Martin obviously wants to finish on his terms no matter how hard he’s finding it, and it’s not like he needs any amount of money that a publisher could offer him. And from their point of view, there’s no reason to, they’ve far out earned any advance they ever gave him, it’s not like they’re paying him a massive salary without any output, they will make far more cash from an actual GRRM sequel than a AN Other one, and the same is probably true even if the next book is posthumous and a collection of his notes.

(Edit - Jack Reacher is the closest I can think of for a series being handed over because the original author doesn’t want to continue with it, though in his case it’s just because he’s bored and wants to retire rather that struggling to stick a landing)

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Well I think it comes down to risk and reward. GoT the TV series ended so badly that a legion of potential spin-off series have been badly burned and HBO has a huge hole in its canon. Publishing doesn’t work on the same scale but one medium feeds the other and publishers have to thinking about generating legacy creative spaces that can rival or take over from things like the MCU.

At the moment you’re quite right that publishers aren’t incentivised to mess with golden-goose authors (hence the massive spike in page numbers for authors like Rowling and Martin) but if they think to scale there is a reason to look at tv and comic books as alternative models. As you say, in literature its death or illness that usually causes the passing of a genuine series but it should be possible to change the model. TV shows don’t tend to survive the change of a show runner but writing teams change regularly and its possible if you respect the process to do it for the better. I would think of something like Mathew Weiner writing and producing for the final season of the Sopranos.

what an incredibly bleak vision

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Heh. I’m not sure its any bleaker than what we’ve currently got. I think there’s way too much emphasis on ‘creator as genius’, especially when the vast majority aren’t getting properly rewarded for it. I think the number of talented writers going broke and the number of people who’ve given joy to millions getting shit for it is far worse. It’s very hard to win under the current model.

Also, I’m not suggesting people should have their projects taken away, but if Patrick Rothfuss absolutely doesn’t want the hassle of not delivering another Kingkiller book, let alone the plans for the TV show he should have an out.

not really sure how strong-arming a 90 year old into giving up what now amounts to his life’s work to corporate committee because you think he’s taking too long will help other authors in any way

marvel and dc routinely treat their ‘creatives’ like shit, how is that a good model for anything

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this model would just set a precedent that means publishers will start adding a clause to their contracts where writer will have to give up all their rights if they take longer than a year to deliver the 'tent

how fucking long is this guy taking to write finnegans wake? that’s it, send round the goons

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The majority of creatives are treated like shit and the freelance/solo producer model facilitates that. The lifes work you’re talking about is usually individual artistic pride and relative poverty. You’re focusing on the impact on the vastly small minority of successful individuals rather even considering that a more co-operative model might bring advantages to an industry that is already incredibly dysfunctional.

EDIT: Also, I guess for the sake of clarity I should add that I’m not in favour of strong arming anyone. I’m just in favour of normalising co-operative models.

for better or worse- its his story to tell (for fucks sake :man_facepalming:)

Of course, but why are we so enthusiastic about the ‘for worse’ bit? Is anyone seriously arguing that we have such a healthy model for producing art that its not reasonable to discuss alternatives?