The constant negativity towards her and Yoko Ono has always been so draining and depressing. From an early age it brought Home to me that even if you strongly share musical and aesthetic tastes with someone, they might still have terrible attitudes morally or ethically, and be cool with regularly belittling talented, unique women just because they “damaged” that person’s favoured artist.
Anyone else finding that this whole thing has triggered intense feelings of regret for not having done more to help women, stop or call out predatory behaviour, etc?
I feel absolutely awful for some stuff I’ve stayed out of and it’s now impossible to ever make it right. Can’t stop thinking about it. I wish I could have done things differently.
Enjoying the men in here making it all about them.
“Oh boo hoo my favourite white male fucking sucks.”
seeing this a lot over fb right now and having to hold my tongue pretty much permanently
Oh I’ve definitely done that even while I probably knew on some level I was doing it. Just going to ‘Like’ where appropriate and keep it zipped for the remainder tbh.
Yeah I mean in this guy is extremely problematic, misogynistic and anti-semitic. Just not happy about it being connected back in this way and it reflects really badly back on the people at the Islamic studies centre where he was teaching until recently, some of who I know and respect as progressive and feminist scholars.
That might be a little high, but there’s no doubt it’s a wider societal problem, not just confined to politicians or celebrities. Until male attitudes change radically about what is acceptable behaviour, this will continue, depressingly.
(And as an aside, the behaviour of men who are attracted to men is no different in my experience, either).
I can let that go a bit I think. People are allowed to feel like they’ve been lied to or whatever. Doesn’t negate the experience of the victims, assuming they’re not one of the ones hollering for “proof”. I’m not male but until yesterday I considered Jesse Lacey my fucking hero. I’ve been feeling sick since first reading the story and I know having been on the other side of inappropriate sexual behaviour that my feelings are nothing compared to those affected. But I can’t deny there being that tiny part of me that is willing it to be tiny fraction of malicious allegations, as unlikely as that is.
At the risk of sounding like a motivational meme - when you know better, you do better - I wouldn’t want my male friends (and relatives - if my dad knew some of my experiences he’d be fucking devastated) to be beating themselves up for what they could have done then. It does feel like a sea change is occurring but I’ve no idea what direction it’s taking us in.
I agree, but I’m a girl and feel worse about the fact that I know what it’s like to be harassed and used and yet I still did nothing
I’m sure you will have though, in subtle ways - not letting friends travel home alone, clocking the guy who’s a little too interested in you and your friends on the dance floor and shifting away. A lot of this stuff is so insidious that it’s not as simple as being able to step in and make it stop happening - it’s that vague feeling of threat that’s hard to name. IME anyway.
I think it might be about that level, you have to factor in that many men will have acted inappropriately without even realising, and remain completely oblivious of their actions while the victim will be affected by it for possibly the rest of their life.
I did something really cruel to a DiSer once thinking I was just playing a harmless joke. They let me know straight away that it really upset them but I got super defensive and tried to maintain it was a joke rather than acknowledging what I did was completely unacceptable. If I can still be in denial with them telling me what I did was wrong then I imagine there are millions of cases where the man wasn’t called out and remains blind to their actions.
I think everyone has their own personal reflections and can work through them. I find saying it’s about men “making it all about themselves” reductive tbh
The fact that you can feel this guilt, while the majority of us guys are still talking about how it affects us, is pretty harrowing really. If it’s of any consolation you are definitely not part of the problem.
maybe reductive, but maybe it needs pointing out that the narrative has definitely descended into ‘oh no here’s the list of films i can’t watch’ while within the periphery someone has just said ‘i was raped.’
I’ve explicitly said that isn’t my intention but I see why that can be seen that way. I am just processing it on a personal level, mostly.
Yeah okay…if that’s the impression people are getting then I’ll step back. I think most people qualify it with something like “obviously this isn’t a big deal in comparison” but if mentioning it is bad enough, then maybe it’s best to keep it to ourselves/more relevant spaces
Yeah, this is probably true in fairness.
i mean i’m not an abused party and won’t speak for them. but i can’t help but think ‘are you serious’ when i see a post on my feed saying ‘these are my experiences’ and being blunt about a huge problem with the entire world right now, and then two posts later someone saying “ah ffs i loved usual suspects i can’t believe it!!” and then debate in the comments whether they can still watch it.
oh i think you and ant were literally just thinking out loud and i’m not tarring you with that brush as you both had the presence of mind to understand the thought within the wider context