Having kids

No, I don’t really believe any one of us can change it all. But I also think it’s very unlikely that any of us here could honestly say we weren’t part of the problem either. And when you think of what’s at stake, that’s not really going to seem good enough to future generations and our individual actions will seem incredibly selfish regardless.

I think it’s moved past the abstract stage.[quote=“ttf, post:190, topic:9415”]
Except when it comes to the environment
[/quote]

That’s the big thing though isn’t it. The coming climate crisis will affect everything else - forced migration will lead to economic stress and eventual war.

I’m still planning to have kids, but I think it might be because I’m in denial.

1 Like

I dunno. I don’t blame my parents for their role in creating the world I inherited. People are flawed and fallible and incapable of thinking long-term.

1 Like

I’d argue it already is. It’s the geo-political elephant in the room with regards to Syria, ISIS, the refugee crisis, the waves of anti-migrant sentiments, nationalism, the reestablishment of national boundaries etc. I think that, alongside the failing of global capitalism (of which the climate crisis is the biggest externality) it’s the biggest driver of the changes that we’re seeing right now.

2 Likes

I agree, I meant more so.

1 Like

Having kids means!!!

1 Like

Not sure there ever exists a perfect time to have children where everything aligns nicely.

Having kids will make you experience a range of emotions that I don’t think you will ever experience in any other situation. Mainly positive ones though there will be negative ones as well. The feelings of pure love I don’t think are achievable anywhere else.

Also don’t think the world is that horrible, in fact it’s pretty, pretty, pretty good.

4 Likes

But it is abstract if you don’t know whether it’s ever going to personally affect you or your progeny and whether truly global events such as nuclear apocalypse or some kind of environmental tipping point are going to happen in the lifetime of any children you might have. Until this is guaranteed, you risk making real world decisions based on problems they might only potentially experience. I’m really glad that my parents didn’t decide on my behalf that the world was too unpleasant and the future was to bleak for me to have even had a crack at life. Of course, if they had decided they just didn’t want children, then that would have been a different issue they were perfectly within their rights to have made.

As @ttf says there are metrics which argue we’ve never had it better, and if you are born in the West to parents with a degree of security, then this is probably the case and could continue to be for a good while yet.

Besides, if global catastrophe does come to pass, you may be giving them front row seats for the end of times. In which case they’ve nothing to lose so you might as well give them the opportunity to look around and enjoy themselves for a while first. There’ll be nothing else to do after.

2 Likes

What if you end up in a The Road situation though.

For me, the key word there is ‘if’ because you are then restricting your life choices on the basis of hypothetical scenarios. A similar analogy would be never going on a foreign holiday because what if the plane crashed or ISIS hijacked the ferry. The danger is that by basing real world decisions on these worries, in 60 years time you’re lying on your deathbed with none of this having come to pass and you think “hmm, I could have had a child after all.”

If a Road like situation comes to pass, then so be it and you deal with it then - but at the risk of sounding like some kind of awful motivational speaker, I just don’t think you should let your life or your real, true actual life choices be determined by fear.

4 Likes

This is it really. I worry a lot when I’m in my more pessimistic moods but I would hate myself if this scenario came to pass and I’d denied myself something I’ve always wanted very much. You only get one life (YOLO).

1 Like

A similar analogy would be being told that ISIS were very likely to hijack the ferry, had heard reports on the shipping forecast that they were that they were actually already on board and you’d actually seen one or two of them walking around the port. Then you’d be getting on the ferry in the vain hope that the crew on board would do enough to stop them.

1 Like

While we’re doing daft analogies, the last time I was pointedly asked why I had no desire to have children, I asked them why they had no desire to keep a baby elephant in their back garden.

Think about it.

(Don’t)

In my 20’s I didn’t want kids, and thought it unlikely I would ever have any. Then in my early 30’s I met someone who did, so I gave it some thought and decided to go for it. The main (but not only) deciding factor was thinking about what life would be like when I’m in my 50’s with or without having had children about for the previous decade or two, and decided life would be more fulfilling with them. I now have a 5 year old and a 7 month old and while hard sometimes, it is definitely worth it. Currently the 5 year old is learning how to read, and being a part of that process is amazing, but really it’s the simple things that do it for me, like getting a smile back when you make fart noises at a baby.

3 Likes

I…um…ahh…I…

Check mate, atheist.

Well I but I guess we just have to agree to disagree here as if ISIS were definitely going to hijack a ferry then I of course wouldn’t board it either – but if I read a report that ISIS may possibly hijack a ferry somewhere at some point in my lifetime then I probably still would.

I don’t really understand this whole “I don’t want to bring a baby into this awful world” like we’re all living in a 3rd world country. We live in the UK ffs.
With the current political climate, are you all saying you’d wish you wouldn’t have been born? Cause you should all be blaming your parents for putting you through brexit.

Yeah, I mean Brexit is pretty fucking shit but it is a pretty minor blip for humanity.

There’s never going to be a time in history where there isn’t shit things going on.

Your child isn’t going to be depressed about politics from the age of 0 - 16. They’re just gonna be loving life.