Although theyâre only a couple of years apart these albums fee like theyâre from a completely different era in East Coast rap to me. Think this is kind of why the Native Tongues sometimes donât quite get the credit I think they deserve - was almost like the landscape changed overnight around the end of 93-94 and they were left behind a bit
Because of the use of jazz samples and dub-like sense of space I naturally grouped them 3 albums together. I was kind of shocked to learn that âLETâ was from '91 once I heard it. it definitely has a depth and sophistication to its production other albums from the era donât, think I just found those other 2 records to have a lot of the qualities of âLETâ but were just a bit more exciting to my ears.
For what itâs worth, while theyâve never addressed that track to my knowledge, everything Iâve heard from them suggests that theyâre not views that they harbour anymore, e.g. Q-Tip criticising the Trump administration for being homophobic. I know itâs a difficult issue, but for me, coming from a time and a situation where homophobia was widespread (even the norm) and moving beyond those prejudices is commendable. Some of us are fortunate enough to be raised without those prejudices and others have to break through them. Without getting all cancel culture, people should be allowed to change and grow. Doesnât stop that being a vile track, and Iâm glad it was never released.
One of the things I was pleasantly surprised on the last album was how their worldview had expanded (as opposed to someone like Kanye who seems determined to push the other way/is less woke than he was 15 years ago).
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No agreed and completely fair enough. Donât want to let them off the hook too easily at all, but I do wonder how much of the nastiness of that track was due to it being a collaboration with Brand Nubian as well given that there is not any other track like that in their entire discography (and there are unfortunately quite a few like that in Brand Nubianâs). Iâm glad Q-Tip seems to have learned and youâre absolutely right that people should be given a chance to learn and hopefully grow past stuff like this
Itâs also contextually important to remember that ATCQ and De La etc were often targetted for being âsoftâ men in the rap space and I canât for the life of me recall where it is but I remember seeing an interview where one of De La jokes about how groups like Onyx would never get into scuffles because they had a reputation and a tough image but people would come to De La shows to try and provoke them and test them as âmenâ so De La would ironically be much more likely to have to get into altercations with the public. This doesnât justify homophobic lyrics in any shape or form, but it does give an idea of the peculiar and particular landscape of the time and where masculinity was at, particularly in New York.
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Absolutely agree - the Beatminerz who did the Black Moon album were the absolute best at this.
Production wise completely agree there are strong similarities (LET definitely cast a long shadow over East Coast production in the 90s), but lyrically and thematically they are a fair way apart, for me at least
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Itâs my favourite album of theirs. Definitely has a dustier sound, plus a Large Professor beat.
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Was wondering if Georgie Porgie would get brought up. Donât think I actually ever listened to the track, but have read a transcript and itâs jaw dropping - I actually thought it was fabricated at first (Adam and Steve, 
). I also hope theyâve moved on, but Q-Tip was still calling using the F word on the Beats, Rhymes and Life documentary so who knows. If I was to completely stop listening to rappers with problematic views Iâd have to bin a lot of albums unfortunately.
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oh absolutely, lyrically miles apart. in the case of Mobb Deep in particular itâs a massive draw for me, those incredibly vivid stories completely pull me in. Thinking about it it may well be the fact that I donât really get anything lyrically from tribe that keeps them at arms length from me.
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Listening to We Got It From Here⊠for the first time in a while, so fucking good. Transported me back to a daytrip I took to Milan for the Milan Derby a few years back where I just spent the entire day (aside from the match) wandering around the city looking at stuff with this album on repeat. Intrinsically linked to a place now, I like it when that happens.
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Has been a thread? Feel like it would be a good thread.
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I know its a 90s rap album but⊠A fair amount of sexism on Low End Theory.
Not an excuse of course, but itâs pretty, pretty tame by the standards of the time. Obviously Iâm not the person to decide what is and isnât acceptable wrt sexism, but anecdotally, a lot of girls I knew liked them best mainly because of this. Donât think they ever made a song where sexism was the main point, unlike a lot of their contemporaries unfortunately did
No neither am I and I not 100% sure what my point is but it definitely sticks out listening to it properly for the first time now, perhaps moreso with them being seen as âsocially consciousâ
Would say âButterâ's main point is pretty much that.
Detracted from the 5/5 production anyway
Yeah, Butter is definitely the main one. Some of that does grate a bit for sure (but again, itâs pretty tame by standards of the time).
I also think thereâs a bit more going on than just sexism (I think some of the criticism in the song is directed at white beauty standards and attempting to confirm rather than being âtrue to yourselfâ or whatever) but again I am not at all well placed to comment on any of these sorts of issues, so going to leave it
Really love Low End, Midnight and Thank You 4 Your Service. Also got really into Q-Tipâs The Renaissance last year through the 1001 Albums generator thread, that album has some jams!
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Not bad. Gang Starr are better though.
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I feel like Gang Starr donât have any albums in the same league as Tribe, even though the depth of the catalogue and the consistency is just as potent.
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Thats a 5!
Easiest five Iâll ever give, theyâve made some of my all time favourite albums. Had the honour of seeing them play their last ever gig at Bestival in 2017, after Phife had sadly passed away
Footprints was one of the tracks that got me obsessed with em. Found the use of samples mind-blowing, still do!
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