#126

Thanks for doing it! Will update the playlist shortly.

#127

Thought they might have broken the 4s like YLT did


Still been listening to a lot of A Kiss in the Dreamhouse off the back of this thread so that can only be a good thing :slightly_smiling_face:

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#128

Good score for a lady who wore nazi gear and hasn’t condemned fascism.
Wonder how her oul mucker Morrissey will do if literally wearing fascism on your sleeve is getting a pass.

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#129

You do know there’s antifascist material on their very first album, right?

" Mittageisen " is a song by English rock band Siouxsie and the Banshees. It originally appeared on the band’s 1978 debut album The Scream as “Metal Postcard (Mittageisen)”
The title was inspired by antinazi German artist John Heartfield’s photocollage Hurrah, die Butter ist Alle! [1] (“Hurray, the Butter is Finished!”), which was also used as the single’s cover art
The single was dedicated to John Heartfield

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#130

You do realise people explicitly gave her a pass in this thread despite acknowledging the Fascist imagery and how they’d marked other down on it but not Siouxsie right?

I mean I don’t even care about the music in terms of this one. It’s the mental gymnastics I find fascinating.

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#131

But that’s got nothing to do with you saying they haven’t condemned fascism when they have.

#132

Well if she has fair enough.
Seems like when confronted with it in that interview someone posted she skirts around it and plays it off rather than going “aye you know what Graham, I’m a prick for glorifying Fascist iconography. The nazis were despicable, and fascism is abhorrent and I’m sorry f my advertising of it led anyone to go down a bad path. Fuck fascism forever”

But surely it’s mixed messages at best.
And maybe she should have practiced what she preached.

#133

the swastika thing is gross but someone being an edgelord when they were 19 isn’t the same as someone in their 60s who’s still a vocal white supremacist is it

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#134

No

Which is more dangerous though?
A key figure in a wildly popular youth movement influencing kids looking for role models and who is riding the crest of a wave.
Or a bitter and jaded old fucker no one is listening to anyway and who everyone knows is a misery guts.
Both are bad but one has more reach and influence at the height of their popularity and a younger, more impressionable audience.

#135

Yes they are

#136

think morrissey being an actual fascist makes him much worse. do wonder how much responsibility the original punks flirting with that imagery have on actual nazi punks emergence, don’t know much about the subject though

#137

Can’t have helped you’d have thought.

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#138

My point here was Morrissey may be an actual Fascist but how much reach and influence on people’s trajectories would he really have now versus Siouxsie in her glory days wearing the swastika and impressionable (and potentially angry) youngsters seeing that as being the done thing.

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#139

I think it is impossible to know really. Morrissey is a monster to me because he is an overt racist, and supports actual facists, I guess I give more weight to intentions and beliefs than stupid mistakes. He isn’t that influential anymore but does have a hardcore following that dont see a problem with him, doubt he will radicalise many of them but probably feeds into the general anti-progressive ‘people get too offended nowadays, freespech, left going to far’ space.

No idea how to gauge the negative impact Siouxsie had, think it was before her band really took off, imagine she certainly influenced others to wear it, but think most of those would wear it in the same way she did, misguided shock fashion, of course that is bad in itself as it must be pretty traumatising for some people to see the swastika. I don’t think people get radicalised by stuff like that, it is the ideas of fascism that are seductive, offering easy answers, scapegoating, engendering a sense of false grievance and false victimisation on the believers. just can’t see Siouxie being the gateway to that, if she had accompanied it with right wing talking points i’d be less forgiving, as it stands I just think it was a stupid mistake.

But like I said, there being punk bands who used that imagery and then real nazi punk bands becoming a thing, feels like there might be a connection. I dont think it created those people and those beliefs, but maybe it made them think it was acceptable in that scene, think the subculture would have just manifest in a different way, racist meat heads would have probably invented punk by themselves. I don’t know, she doesnt pass my own personal threshold of dodge on account of being young, people make mistakes, and dont think she ever expressed rightwing ideas, and it is ideas that really spread fascism

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#140

Not beyond the realms of possibility that people who were young when punk broke then got into Morrissey etc and are now the gammonfans. Heck loads of bands formed from seeing the sex pistols and Lydon himself is a massive right wing prick.

The dark side of punk and how and why the split came about would make for interesting investigation/doc imo.

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#141

i’m always baffled by the gammon laddish Morrissey fan contingent, just couldn’t be more at odds with my perception of their now tarnished music

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#142

‘Nocturne’ is one of the best live albums ever made and this is a great opener


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#143

Hm. Missed this one. 4.5 rounded up to 5/5 for me.

#144

Nocturne is phenomenal. Someone right at the top asked for a tip on where to start. Nocturne is the answer.

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#145

Nocturne, whilst being an iconic live album is a tad flawed to me. I’d recommend anyone looking for a starting point to go with the Once Upon A Time compilation or Juju.

Loved watching that live clip of Israel and the crowd energy is lovely yet I feel less is made of Robert Smith being in the Banshees because he wasn’t better than the guitarist he replaced, they just have a different feel. McGeoch was a genius.

1 Like