@TKC - voting twin!

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Just thinking over what is different between Metal and other genres for me:

Ok so say you write a song about a difficult or upsetting subject, how much onus is on you as the artist or performer to make that clear to the audience?

I guess that’s the difference for me, if you write a sad acoustic song about murder you can impart a lot to let the audience know what the takeaway is meant to be, in fact tradition and just the dynamics and tone implies a lot. If it’s a kind of angry euphoric cathartic metal song about murder is the message getting lost or intentionally blurred/played around with…like ooooh it’s a bad thing but wink wink you can enjoy it a bit voyeuristically?

Obviously this is actually a deeper question about art than just metal vs sad ballad but there’s a distinction there I think.

Yeah I’ve just had a listen to Reign in Blood and I wouldn’t call it heavy at all. Back on release it’d have been heavy as fuck, but it’s definitely the speed that makes it seem heavy, not the instruments

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sounds like you’d be into Black Metal then, which is very synth-heavy and atmospheric such as Emperor as I posted above because as silly as they looked they made amazing music that went on to inspire the likes of Deafheaven and Alcest.

That or post-metal which is like heavier atmospheric prog rock, in which case, ISIS are your answer.

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great minds!

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As a kid I loved Black Sabbath. Something so powerful that connects directly. Not sure why but then in my early teenage years I moved away from them, Metal was stupid or so it seemed and I started listening to New Order, The Cure, Dead Kennedys, Crass…a lot of Punk stuff that I’d just missed out on generationally.

Circa 1986 I started attending any gig I could possibly go to, 2 or 3 a week. Conflict, Anti-Sect, Napalm Death, Electro Hippies, Red Lorry Yellow Lorry, Heresy, many more. I would look in Vinyl Dreams, a record shop in Oasis Birmingham and they had a rack that started to fill with more and more Hardcore albums. Flicking through this I saw ‘Show No Mercy’ and it looked like the stupidest sleeve I’d ever seen, almost so bad it was great. The Thrash scene started getting a lot of press quickly and a lot was written about Reign In Blood, I’m pretty sure there was some hold up on the albums U.K. release, you could read about it, you couldn’t hear it.

Then, by chance I popped into Vinyl Dreams and in that hardcore rack they had Reign In Blood, import £7:49, this was £2 more than I’d be usually comfortable spending on a record back then. It was a no brainer, I bought it, I had to. On the bus journey home I took the inner sleeve out and holy shit, it was on Def Jam, I couldn’t really fathom already what was going on, this is a Metal band, right? Wrong.

That afternoon I must have played Reign In Blood 6 or 7 times. I could not believe how short it was. I could not take in all in. The artwork, so grubby actually evoking Hell, the lyrics, were they serious? I was initially conflicted, but man that music was speaking volumes to me. No longer would Sabbath be a past guilty uncool secret. The more I played Reign In Blood, the more it connected. I had missed out on the first wave of Punk. I had loved Maiden and Sabbath. This was Punk and Metal bolted together with so much precision you could not see the joining points.

What Reign In Blood does it that it allows yourself to get lost in the music. Like for them 26 minutes, nothing else matters. It’s to me like a painting, a film, a high work of art and as such it provokes, it does not hold your hand, it does not explain itself. I have read some of the comments above and everyone is totally entitled to their own take on Slayer. I’d say, to me Slayer use satanic and shocking imagery to hold a mirror up to Reagan’s America. The stickers on Hanneman’s guitar, Black Flag, Dead Kennedys, Wasted Youth, TSOL told me all I needed to know.

After the album settled you could see an impact, at gigs, on the streets, on peoples jackets and in the music. Your hardcore bands treading the circuits bled more Metal into their music, seems a lot of people had the same guilty secret, and it was lapped up. The music and scenes got bigger, the same small hardcore bands were outgrowing the small venues all of a sudden. That big 3 or big 4 had an impact yet to me Slayer stand alone from Metallica, Anthrax and the other band. Totally alone.

Slayer are the fastest band I have heard that holds an intricate tune. No slight to bands that play faster, I just think Slayer, Reign In Blood particularly - is the fastest you can go before stuff distorts or blurrs. Reign In Blood has not one second of slack to my ears. It’s amongst the 3 best albums I have ever heard.

Of course Reign In Blood is their masterpiece. The band themselves already knew they could not top it. South of Heaven, Seasons In The Abyss and Hell Awaits are all mighty strong records. Had Hell Awaits been produced by Rick Rubin it would possibly be their second best album. I have no interest in anything post Seasons In The Abyss but they always put on a great live show. Saw them on the Reign In Blood and South Of Heaven tours and again about 10 years or so back.

They showed how music born of frustration can walk genres and in cases melt them. They are not perfect, they do have a perfect album though, how many bands can you say that about? Extreme music for open accepting ears.

Their high is so high it can only be a 5 from me.

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Slayer

Ok, I’ve had breakfast, showered and calmed down a lot. Admittedly that’s not the best way to get involved in this kind of thread but let’s try to get my thoughts together with as little swearing as possible.

Slayer are as 5 as it’s possible to get. Reign changed heavy music forever. That collision of metal and hardcore had never been heard before and it shook the world. That alone would be enough even if they hadn’t followed it up with south of Heaven and Seasons.

Remember, people though Thrash had been perfected with Master of Puppets and then these guys came and smashed that in 28! Minutes.

It’s hard to try to explain what they meant to me growing up, that switch from Iron Maiden and Metallica to something much harder and more, well, for want of a better word, evil, changed my musical world view and was a gateway to more extreme music.

Their music drips with atmosphere if you don’t listen to Slayer, have a listen to the song south of Heaven.

Just listen to that! The evil riff and the amazing drumming just keeps building. I got this album in 1990 and this song still gives me goosebumps to this day. Yes, they were Edgelords before that was a thing, you don’t start an album with

“Auschwitz, the meaning of pain

The why that I want you to die

Slow death, immense decay

Showers that cleanse you of your life”

Without trying to be as shocking as possible but that’s fine. Some music should be ugly, this kind of music is a horror film and should be treated as such and not the Satanic Panic pearl clutching of the past. The song Dead Skin Mask is about Ed Gein but no one thinks that Slayer are pro serial killer.

Also, dead skin Mask is another classic for evil and atmosphere, I think I like slower Slayer than full on breakneck speed Slayer.

Their solos are terrible, I will give you that though.

People say that the band fell off after Seasons but God Hates us All is fucking great, it was brilliant to hear Dave back behind the kit. I also love the fact they had the balls to stop the song Disciple and yell the line “I keep my bible in a pool of blood so it’s lies won’t infect me”

Daft as fuck and so much fun to yell at gigs. Because 40 years in, Slayer were still one of the best live bands I’ve seen (and I’ve seen hundreds at this point).

This is a grim interview with Tom in 2015 about the damage of a life touring and doesn’t even mention the surgery he’s had to fuse his neck and spine after years of head banging.

But I might be going off point. The band may be dicks (Tom has really disappointed me, I have friends in the metal press that tell me Kerry is an arrogant wanker) But that can’t take away from what this band and they’re music mean to me and that’s everything.

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unfortunate that the name is now used for a terrorist group given that they’re one of the few bands to release two 5/5 albums

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also in a lot of genres that kind of song would be just a small part of an album, what happens when an artist just makes songs about this kind of thing but ties it with an image of being strong and powerful and kicking arse?

Anthrax are my favorite of the four! Thrash metal for me is beer pounding music, it has to be fun, fast and kinda dumb - Among The Living ticks all three of those boxes.

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John Bush-era Anthrax is rad. I also find them really funny for some reason, the same with Megadeth.

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Great post, this is basically my view as well. Reign in Blood is a perfect top 10 album of all time. I don’t really listen to much else by Slayer or thrash in general because it’s just perfection and it scratches that itch for working out/going for a drive/annoying the kids. Such an incredible album.

4/5 for me but only because they’re problematic. I think it’s possible for a band to be 5/5 based on one album alone.

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the half speed bit is just incredible.

This is the kind of post I love in these threads.

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Jacob Bannon on the formation of Converge: “We were hardcore kids with leftover Slayer riffs”.

Norma Jean being compared favourably to Slayer has made me angrier than anything else in this thread.

Up until this

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Don’t get me wrong, Among The Living is EXCELLENT. And as a group they seem the best dudes of the bunch - Scott Ian and Frank Bello in particular seem like proper gents from what I’ve seen. I just don’t think they hit the same heights and consistency as the other 3… like Rust In Peace, Peace Sells, Ride The Lightning, Master of Puppets and Reign In Blood are all just that bit better. Think Anthrax nosedived a bit after ATL too aside from a handful of good tracks, although they’ve released some great stuff more recently.

Yebbut so does folk music, and I don’t think that, say, a Shirley Collins HGATR would be all about calling everyone in the genre Nazis. I might be being cynical, but I think there’s an element of using this as an easy stick to beat a genre people don’t like. Kanye and the Beach Boys for example are right wing dickheads who still scored highly, and Bowie and the VU have dodgy fash elements to their stories.

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it’s the same mix of people some who don’t really care what an artist is like and some who do, I freaked out in the Velvet Underground thread when I found out Nico was a Nazi. Like could not believe that everybody throughout my musical conversations has always praised them and not once had it ever been brought up, totally gross

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This post delivered

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Great post :metal:

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