No idea.
They were ok
I called him a woman beater cause he was convicted of beating a woman.
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Everything Iāve read about him makes him sound like an abject nightmare of a human - right at the end there was an interview in the Quietus that was essentially him blind drunk telling the interviewer how much he hated muslims and immigrants whilst the writer tries to find excuses for him. Wasnāt previously aware of the woman beating but it seems in character.
Generally though Iāve been ranking on the music with small adjustments for horrendous behaviour - ignoring his personality, itās a 4. Some staggering and unique highsā¦ but also a lot of shite.
4
Never had the time or enthusiasm to really investigate them. Occasionally I come across something like the lyrics of English Scene and think, wow, there must be some good stuff in there, or hear a recommendation from someone I respect, but I never actually find the time.
Hard to argue with that, though I think he was just generally a deeply flawed person capable of some deplorable actions, but I wouldnāt characterise him as āwoman beaterā as such (just 'cause to me that means something more specific that I wouldnāt apply in his case). Thereās plenty of evidence of (or at least accounts of) him hitting people, seemingly as part of his obviously profound alcohol and anger issues. Always amazes me how he managed to continue to recruit new members for the group when he mustāve been such a nightmare to be around.
Thought Iād listened to the first 15 or so albums but Iāve never even heard of āRoom to Liveā.
Easy to use that one when itās an artist you like though. Nothing personal crisps, and I think weāve all done it in these threads.
Also, there is one recorded charge/conviction for assaulting a woman, due to his personality and what we know about his other behaviours Iām highly dubious that it was an isolated incident but obviously thatās just me speculating.
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First became aware of them through the adoration that John Peel and his listeners showed them. Didnāt get it, just a guy with a weird voice shouting over a load of rackety music. Put it down as a student thing.
Really got into them when I was in my twenties though. Something just clicked and I couldnāt get enough of them. Loved all the gloom and weirdness.
However, I read Mark E Smithās autobiography and he just came across as a downright horrible person. Spent entire chapters laying into old bandmates and bringing up old squabbles. Also plenty of interviews where he comes across as a real mean-spirited, bitter old alcoholic-
e.g. āI survived a Mark E. Smith interviewā: one NME writerās unique experience with the post-punk provocateur
Like a nasty Tory uncle who just happens to be in a legendary alternative band.
Also responsible for one of the worst gigs Iāve ever been to. MES got bored about halfway through and scurried off never to return. Of course all the Fall-obsessives were online the next day saying what a terrific gig it had been!
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Kasabian = bad, lead singer = wife beater
The Fall = good, lead singer = complex guy
(just so Iām clear, this isnāt my opinion. Kasabian are far better than The Fall)
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Yeah, youāre right. Using ājustā sounds like Iām trying to diminish it in some way, which Iām not. He was without doubt a not very nice person in very many ways.
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Canāt believe people are arguing you shouldnāt call someone a woman beater āif they only did it onceā
Jfc keep fighting the good fight, eh lads.
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Saw him do this at Cardiff Uni in 2011ish, no idea if it was a regular thing. Definitely got a free pass for a lot of things he said and did in the past because of a āperceived brillianceā, but perhaps there has been more of a reevaluation in the last few years. Deeply unpleasant guy without a doubt.
In terms of their music, I have some big gaps. Love Nations Saving Grace, Hex and the albums of the 80ās before giving up. Then picked up again with the early 2010ās run whilst they were coming out. Not sure how to rate them as a whole tbh.
Enjoyed this album, which (understandably) doesnāt get much mention out of their works.
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Some people get a free pass whilst others donāt. DiS is a very fickle place.
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Abstain, donāt know anything by them really apart from Mark E. Smith being really odd when Adam and Joe came round to do vinyl justice:
āAxel Rose?ā
Adamās sigh at about 2:37 tells you all really.
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Yep, that was the one!
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I guess when a woman accuses a man of beating her up Iām comfortable believing that sheās telling the truth.
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Sorry, I was trying to articulate (not very well) a point that didnāt need making. He without doubt hit a woman (and probably more than one), so woman beater is absolutely an appropriate phrase to use.
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voting for the band not the vocalist as it discredits how amazing the supporting cast were/are
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To probably misquote the wrong person, was it Tony Wilson who said something like āI love the fall much more than I like themā, which sort of sums up how I feel.
MES must have been an absolute nightmare to be around, but is a fascinating character, and I do enjoy the sense of chaos in the fall.
I think they are a tad overrated musically - Iāve only ever really got on with Bend Sinister and the Unutterable as albums, although I quite enjoyed Infotainment Scan when it came up on HGIIR. I quite like checking the others out from time to time, and thereās always something good to discover, even if a whole album can feel a bit much sometimes. I always enjoy it hen they come up on 6 music.
I do like the songs where he tries to sing, because his singing voice is terrible but thereās something quite sweet about hearing him without the usual swagger.
I donāt really like hearing bands copying his vocal style - to me itās a unique thing and it just sounds wrong coming from anyone else.
Favourite songs are the Lost in Music cover, which is immensely pleasing, 2 Librans (first Fall song I really fell for), Sparta FC.
Probably a 4.
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