They were ok
I called him a woman beater cause he was convicted of beating a woman.
Everything I’ve read about him makes him sound like an abject nightmare of a human - right at the end there was an interview in the Quietus that was essentially him blind drunk telling the interviewer how much he hated muslims and immigrants whilst the writer tries to find excuses for him. Wasn’t previously aware of the woman beating but it seems in character.
Generally though I’ve been ranking on the music with small adjustments for horrendous behaviour - ignoring his personality, it’s a 4. Some staggering and unique highs… but also a lot of shite.
Never had the time or enthusiasm to really investigate them. Occasionally I come across something like the lyrics of English Scene and think, wow, there must be some good stuff in there, or hear a recommendation from someone I respect, but I never actually find the time.
Hard to argue with that, though I think he was just generally a deeply flawed person capable of some deplorable actions, but I wouldn’t characterise him as “woman beater” as such (just 'cause to me that means something more specific that I wouldn’t apply in his case). There’s plenty of evidence of (or at least accounts of) him hitting people, seemingly as part of his obviously profound alcohol and anger issues. Always amazes me how he managed to continue to recruit new members for the group when he must’ve been such a nightmare to be around.
Thought I’d listened to the first 15 or so albums but I’ve never even heard of ‘Room to Live’.
Easy to use that one when it’s an artist you like though. Nothing personal crisps, and I think we’ve all done it in these threads.
Also, there is one recorded charge/conviction for assaulting a woman, due to his personality and what we know about his other behaviours I’m highly dubious that it was an isolated incident but obviously that’s just me speculating.
First became aware of them through the adoration that John Peel and his listeners showed them. Didn’t get it, just a guy with a weird voice shouting over a load of rackety music. Put it down as a student thing.
Really got into them when I was in my twenties though. Something just clicked and I couldn’t get enough of them. Loved all the gloom and weirdness.
However, I read Mark E Smith’s autobiography and he just came across as a downright horrible person. Spent entire chapters laying into old bandmates and bringing up old squabbles. Also plenty of interviews where he comes across as a real mean-spirited, bitter old alcoholic-
e.g. “I survived a Mark E. Smith interview”: one NME writer’s unique experience with the post-punk provocateur
Like a nasty Tory uncle who just happens to be in a legendary alternative band.
Also responsible for one of the worst gigs I’ve ever been to. MES got bored about halfway through and scurried off never to return. Of course all the Fall-obsessives were online the next day saying what a terrific gig it had been!
Kasabian = bad, lead singer = wife beater
The Fall = good, lead singer = complex guy
(just so I’m clear, this isn’t my opinion. Kasabian are far better than The Fall)
Yeah, you’re right. Using “just” sounds like I’m trying to diminish it in some way, which I’m not. He was without doubt a not very nice person in very many ways.
Can’t believe people are arguing you shouldn’t call someone a woman beater ‘if they only did it once’
Jfc keep fighting the good fight, eh lads.
Saw him do this at Cardiff Uni in 2011ish, no idea if it was a regular thing. Definitely got a free pass for a lot of things he said and did in the past because of a ‘perceived brilliance’, but perhaps there has been more of a reevaluation in the last few years. Deeply unpleasant guy without a doubt.
In terms of their music, I have some big gaps. Love Nations Saving Grace, Hex and the albums of the 80’s before giving up. Then picked up again with the early 2010’s run whilst they were coming out. Not sure how to rate them as a whole tbh.
Enjoyed this album, which (understandably) doesn’t get much mention out of their works.
Some people get a free pass whilst others don’t. DiS is a very fickle place.
Abstain, don’t know anything by them really apart from Mark E. Smith being really odd when Adam and Joe came round to do vinyl justice:
Adam’s sigh at about 2:37 tells you all really.
Yep, that was the one!
I guess when a woman accuses a man of beating her up I’m comfortable believing that she’s telling the truth.
Sorry, I was trying to articulate (not very well) a point that didn’t need making. He without doubt hit a woman (and probably more than one), so woman beater is absolutely an appropriate phrase to use.
voting for the band not the vocalist as it discredits how amazing the supporting cast were/are