#77

Oh yeah, Iā€™m not saying thereā€™s no good tunes there, but it is drenched in artifice (and thatā€™s not necessarily a bad thing)

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#78

i donā€™t wanna grow up

#79

Think itā€™s ridiculous to write him off as in any way artificial, itā€™s like saying the worldā€™s greatest authors are frauds for writing fiction. Itā€™s the art form, heā€™s honest about it in a far more intellectually sincere way than the absolute river load of shite bands over the past 50 years pushing an authentic ā€˜versionā€™ of themselves - itā€™s the opposite of pretention.

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#80

ā€˜Drenched in artificeā€™ is a good way to put it tbf. Heā€™s an actor playing parts in the stories he writes which is always going to see accusations of inauthenticity thrown his way. I can see how that step removal can put people off but thatā€™s just one way to make art, innit? It doesnā€™t all have to be directly confessional.

Donā€™t really understand the difficult bits shaved off thing though. Not sure anyone has listened to the Black Rider and complained itā€™s too damn accessible.

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#81

much faker than Steely Dan imo, all they wanted to do was bring you well crafted music. Tom is a middle class guy pretending to be an outsider artist

#82

Here a vintage (for new DiS at least) where I posit that heā€™s never released less than a good album by his own high standardsā€¦

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#83

youā€™re not drawing me into them again, they got their sub par 3.29 and can continue being the footnote they are

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#84

hey man if you donā€™t think middle class actors are fake thatā€™s your cross to bare.

I would also say that authors are liars too a lot of them came from rich backgrounds and were fantasists

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#85

Arguments about authenticity are pointless really. But making Steely Danā€™s state of the art studio and revolving door of session musicians vs Tom playing a bin lid a class issue and siding with Dan is very weird on every count.

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#86

I just donā€™t think they ever pretended to be anything other than jazz nerds though

#87

Arenā€™t most their songs written in the voice of someone else too? Theyā€™re all actors. I just prefer the shouty junkyard one.

#88

yeah I just think thereā€™s a difference between writing a song and living a persona

#89

yip, my real name isnā€™t even Lo-Pan

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#90

time to play the penny whistle from inside a bin

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#91

waaaaaaay ahead of you :slight_smile:

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#92

The persona is just a protective shell though, a way of keeping his real self and his family distanced from his art. Steely Dan retreated from the limelight (something they were able to do because they already had the success to finance it), he put up a sword and shield to keep the vultures at bay. Itā€™s just another way of dealing with the world.

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#93

Fair enough but Iā€™d still say thatā€™s a romantic way of looking it.

#94

Iā€™ve been reading Lowside of the Road lately, a biography that the writer struggled to make because Tom is so fiercely protective of his private life (to the extent I almost feel guilty reading it), and thatā€™s definitely the impression I get.

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#95

Iā€™m sure he is protective but that doesnā€™t mean it canā€™t be artifice

#96

In my defence I did open with ā€œI havent listened to Tom Waits.ā€ Dont think it was outrageous for me to not know it was an original :smiley:

1 Like