How’re you feeling about the return of full capacity gigs in the UK?

I guess whether we are happy the restrictions are being removed is a moot point since they are going to do it regardless. Those that are fully behind restrictions being removed (this isn’t a judgement, I understand your point of view), are you comfortable with going to a gig - assuming you have had both vaccines?

I should probably bow out of this thread for my own sanity but I’ll just leave this here before I go. Just really hope everyone stays safe and that anyone on the fence about going to a concert chooses to stay home. This reopening is an overwhelmingly bad idea and not safe for anyone.

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Doesn’t look good when the double-jabbed new Health Secretary gets Covid the weekend all restrictions are lifted does it?

I’ve been to a few small outdoor things here this summer but the idea of going back into a club/small venue… I think I’ll wait

Double jabbed people can get covid pretty easily.

Yeah, I just mean the optics doesn’t really fill you with a sense of security that Govt has made a thoroughly grand job of preparing for Monday

Rock out to help out

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I have a ticket for a show in October, rescheduled repeatedly from May 2020!
I’m not booking anything up tho.

Not totally sure if I am going to go in October, I guess i will see how everything is going nearer the time, I might go and then somewhat isolate for the week after to be on the safe side

dunno! I am cautious about the return of full capacity gigs i would say

will probs just turn up for the headliner as well if i do go, just minimise my amount of time in there (time is a factor for infection yeah? or have i made that up?)

How do you feel reading messaging like this?

I’m in North-East US right now. The US is entirely open compared to the UK. Even the most hardline can’t stop things getting back to normal because Americans (in general) have a love for freedom. I would much rather be here than trapped in New Zealand for the unforeseeable future.

It’s surprising how much concern there seems to be about anti-maskers getting nasty, rather than underscoring that your mask protects others and is in the collective good of the gig going community. There’s a longer post on their Facebook https://fb.watch/6Pv45GAMms/

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From what I’ve seen reported, day to day life has been a lot more normal and less restricted in New Zealand than in other countries throughout the pandemic as a whole, because of the way they managed to get on top of the virus early. If other countries had done the same then perhaps life might be back to normal for everyone right now – whether this happening was realistic or not I guess we’ll never know.

You could also say that although legally people are free to go about their lives as they wish in the USA, for those more vulnerable and reliant on public transport or in public-facing jobs things may not feel that way, whereas in New Zealand such people will have much more confidence to lead normal lives. One person’s freedom might lead to another person’s confinement.

And I think you need to take into account the people suffering long-term illness (or unfortunately worse) because of the virus and how their lives are being affected, or those of their close relations.

I also doubt anyone feels trapped in New Zealand. People from the country are probably more free to enter other countries than people from countries with higher Covid rates.

Given that we’re evidently not trying to eradicate the virus from the population, the question of how and when to lift restrictions is a tricky one. Personally my preference would have been to at least hold off until everyone who wanted 2 doses of the vaccine had the chance to receive it (admittedly still not ideal for the most vulnerable). Seems strange to get within sight of that but then open things up early just as cases appear to be so sharply escalating.

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I hear you but I suspect you are in the privileged position of being in a non vulnerable group?

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Sweet fucking Jesus can someone chuck this man in the bin. FFS!

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Beyond parody.

Reflecting more thoroughly on the topic question, I think I would be more comfortable going into crowded areas if there was some sort of ‘passport’ system in place like the ‘Green Pass’ that was implemented until recently in Israel, allowing people who have had both vaccines entry. That would make me feel a little bit safer but even that can be argued not to be a panacea:

"Israel introduced the ‘Green Pass’, enabling vaccinated citizens to use leisure facilities like gyms and hotels, in February 2021.[13] The app became available one week after a second vaccine dose and was valid until December 2021.[14] Some people who had natural immunity from infection, but were not yet eligible to be vaccinated, were also covered, but test results were not included.[15] Its impact is not entirely clear – there were some reports of small protests against the system, some confusion about how it worked, and uneven enforcement by businesses. At the same time, case rates fell, and the Israeli economy largely reopened. It is unclear how much, if any, of that progress was due to the Green Pass.[16]

The scheme ended in June 2021, along with other restrictions, as Israel achieved high vaccination rates and low case rates. However, there have been some suggestions that it might be reintroduced as the Delta variant drives up cases again.[17]"

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/vaccine-passports

I don’t have a show pencilled in until December anyway, so by then the decision may have been made for me…

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To each their own, but I’d rather be “trapped” in a country that is essentially COVID free (and with universal health care) than “free” in a country where you can’t go to the grocery store or doctor’s office or work without the risk of being infected by a deadly disease that often leaves survivors with debilitating longterm / lifelong health conditions (for which they’ll have grotesquely expensive for-profit healthcare to ruin them financially on top of it).

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The case rate helps

New Zealand (Pop 5.1m)
Total deaths 26 Total cases 2,804

UK (Pop 68m)
Total deaths 128,593 Case: 5,281,098

I think there are currently more people on my timeline each time I hit refresh testing posting than in New Zealand this week.

Edit: there were 25 deaths in the UK today alone. We’re about 3 weeks away from the current positive case load generating more deaths.

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Vaccines aren’t a silver bullet

https://twitter.com/drtomfrieden/status/1416811260314853382?s=21

https://twitter.com/fredmacpherson/status/1416692791439151105?s=21

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I never said it was, although double vaccination drastically cuts the risk of hospitalisations by 96% (Pzifer) and 92% (AstraZeneca) respectively:

Such an implementation would at least cut the risk of unvaccinated gig goers being hospitalised if they were to catch it in a packed gig venue as they wouldn’t be allowed entry in the first place.

However, one of the flaws of the Israeli Green Pass is that it didn’t include the necessity of a negative test result, which is just as if not more important and would make me feel even safer.

‘‘Some people who had natural immunity from infection, but were not yet eligible to be vaccinated, were also covered, but test results were not included’’

It’s all pie in the sky bullshit anyway as such a ‘Covid passport’ will never be implemented.

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Mentioned once upthread already, but here’s a tweet / article about it.

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Also this apparently happened in Israel. Vaccinated person infects vaccinated person who infects 75 students at a party.

Regardless of if everyone at a concert is vaccinated (which realistically won’t be the case), with community transmission this high both vaccinated and unvaccinated people are going to catch it. That’s a threat to public (and global) health for multiple reasons already outlined, even if hospitalizations are down.

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