Have a read about the user-centric model

https://musically.com/2020/05/13/what-are-user-centric-music-streaming-payouts/

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I’d pay £50 a month for spotify if they made the app less shit - which I’m sure they’re able to do.

By keeping the price so low for so long they’ve fucked themselves. If they’d bumped it by 50p every year for the last ten years, I seriously doubt they’d be struggling.

The issue there is the business model of all the monstrously large internet companies - get as big as possible as fast as possible so you get as much of a monopoly as you can, and only then do you start trying to make a profit.

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think that’s sort of right but combining two different things from what I understand:

unclaimed PRS money (i.e. the songwriter / rights owner hasn’t registered properly or not enough info exists for a payment to be made) is held in a Black Box pot and after a certain amount of time unclaimed (3 years) it’s either added to a pot to be paid out to registered members (publishers) based on their share of the market (so it disproportionally benefits the bigger labels and artists) or occasionally given to charities like the MU.

The other part is the minimum threshold of earned rights before a payment is made but that’s pretty low (£30) and generally one radio play triggers it. That pot builds up for each artist until they hit the threshold, and once a year the threshold is reduced to £1.

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That’s the better explanation, thank you! I never wrapped my head around it properly (and I don’t get PRS anymore anyway so, you know, meh from my perspective). Still sucks if you’re an independent without the knowledge or support to adequately register your material.

Oh yeah, it was the black box pot thing I was specifically thinking of.

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This is definitely part of the problem. A lot of people don’t realise that a lot of modern companies have very little interest in making a profit. They are built on a model whereby they get massive, attract venture capital and make lots of money for the founders. They can do all of that without making a profit, and in fact it is easier to do that way because you can grow quickly if you offer a service so cheaply that you actually make a loss. It’s extraordinary but true that Deliveroo and Uber, for instance, lose money on every single piece of business they do. The more you use them more money they lose. They are artificially cheap, just like Spotify. This article is good on this:

However, one thing I am very sure of is that Spotify would never pay artists right, even if it got more expensive to users and became profitable. That’s not how capitalism works. That money would go to Ek and the venture capitalists.

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no duplicate band entries, and no bootleg live releases (baffling that Metallica has about 50 live albums), it just makes it more tedious to find what you actually want

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This is the major factor in killing the CD format. I love choosing a CD for the car and i am dreading the time when all new cars no longer have CD players.

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Anecdotally I’ve heard CDs having a bit of an upswing in record shops and across resellers recently. There’s simply a lot of stuff that was pressed in the 90s/00s that isn’t available on streaming or other formats.

I think in the next couple of years they’ll come back on some level: they’re cheap to make, don’t take as long as vinyl to produce, can look nice if you have decent packaging.

I spent a fair amount of April looking for old folk cd’s on discogs. The Voice Squads 1st album and Chris Wood & Andy Cutting’s 1st albums aren’t on anything.

you ever had one of these?

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I don’t think there is a way to fix it now really is there? The toothpaste can’t be forced back into the tube. Spotify always seemed to be an interim measure in the fight against piracy until something better came along (yes, I realise that is somewhat naive) but it’s become the template now, and without significant push-back from artists/labels, I can’t see consumers that have become accustomed to limitless options for £10p/m switching to anything else. Big labels have vested interests in maintaining the status quo and whilst this issue has been getting a lot of press, unless there’s legislation/regulation brought in, nothing will change, and will likely get worse.

I would personally like to see Bandcamp throw their hat in the ring. They do seem to have a more artist focused and ethical approach.

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Haha, i had completely forgotten that these existed but I DO remember a friend of mine having one of these! I got my first car in 2004 (a 1994 VW Polo) and i used tapes for a few months before getting a 10-CD changer fitted in the boot.

Something I don’t think gets discussed nearly enough is that artists were getting royally fucked even during the “golden age” of the music industry. I’m sure most of the people on this thread have read Steve Albini’s notorious takedown of the major label model but in case anyone hasn’t, the long and the short of it is that when CDs were bringing in untold riches, labels would sign any old shite and throw hundreds of thousands of dollars at promoting it and the vast majority of those artists would never break even.

I feel like I bring this book up all the time but So You Wanna Be A Rock’n’Roll Star by Jacob Slichter, the drummer from Semisonic, is a comprehensive and very easy/depressing read of how even in the 90s a band could go platinum - American platinum, 1 million records - and still break up owing their record label millions of dollars.

What’s changed? Major labels don’t take as many risks, they sign fewer artists, and now they’re fucking those artists on streaming rather than recoupable debts. The rise of the ‘360 degree deal’, where artists now have to give a portion of all earnings to the label, including those that were previously theirs alone e.g. touring and merch, is just another sign that while streaming is an indicator of industry problems, the bad guys are and have always been the record labels.

Ultimately the only way to ‘fix’ streaming is to get rid of it and make people buy albums again, and that’s clearly not going to happen. Labels/publishers need to pay a higher proportion of the earnings they make from streaming to bands, and consumers need to start seeing merch as part of the cost of gig-going rather than an optional thing they might buy if they like the design of a shirt.

It’s very rare that I would ever cite MC Lars in any context, but in 2006, he had a lyric “Music was a product/Now it is a service” in a song about how he was still able to make a living as a touring musician despite people not buying CDs anymore. Labels have been failing to reckon with this shift for the better part of a decade and a half.

For a look at ‘alternative revenue streams’, we can look at the more creative responses to the COVID crisis. The Spanish Love Songs patreon, where you get access to demos, a podcast, and once a month get to vote on a song for the band to cover, has been very successful for a band of their size.

TL;DR - unless you uninvent the internet, it’s hard not to see the era where artists made millions of dollars selling records and CDs and toured in order to support those sales as an aberration, and the model whereby artists make money touring and selling merch and make new albums in order to support those tours as the way things are going to be for the foreseeable future.

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my first/only car I bought in about 2005, my only criteria was it had a tape player (bluetooth wasn’t a thing in used cars at that time)

car salesperson thought I was weird

The thing that’s made me feel older than anything else, ever, is seeing bands putting out variants of tapes and CDs and watching kids snap them up the same way I snap up fancy-coloured vinyl. It also made me regret music magpie-ing almost my entire CD collection before we left the UK. Still got all the singles though!

I think they’re trying to make CDs a high value niche product like vinyl has become. Artists like Billie Eilish are putting out very expensive deluxe versions of their albums. So it may make a comeback but I think in a limited way.

I mean, it would suit the industry down to the ground if the single cheapest physical medium they ever came up with made a massive comeback, wouldn’t it

yeah I think this is what they are trying to do isn’t it? Stick a cd in a coloured clamshell, add a few stickers, call it deluxe and sell it for £60.

ahemTOOL

Oh that was a bit special wasnt it.

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