#24

I want to think it can happen, but since doping has been occurring since forever, I don’t believe it will

#25

I think quite a lot of things can be perceived as occurring since forever until it doesn’t anymore.

#26

I think you can make arguments for the case. Personally I’m not sure and didn’t see enough peak Jordan but LeBron is absolutely incredible in this modern era of the game at least.

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#27

LeBron is certainly in the discussion andceasily top 5… I feel he needs a couple more titles to really cement his legacy though?

#28

We’ll be waiting a long time until there are no known dopers, and even then it might be viewed under scrutiny because of the histotical culture that previous dopers have created

#29

Don’t know enough about other sports to confidently say but Messi is for me Clive the undoubted GOAT. Don’t care about Pele tbh, Maradona and Zidane would be next for me.

Definitely think he could have done it in black and white/cotton shirt/heavy ball/wet Wednesday at Stoke as well; that argument is bs

#30

I didn’t say he wouldn’t have talent, I said he would struggle, which he would, as would any other modern player. Conversely, I think a few players from back in the day would look a lot better if they had the benefits of modern technology. Still think Messi is currently the best there’s been, but it doesnt take a genius to work out that it’s easier to be a great player in most sports today than it was a couple of decades ago.

#31

I think it’s the other way round if anything

#32

are goats killing sport?

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#33

they’re probably on the same level. in terms of being able to completely dominate and win games pretty much single handedly anyway. you could even argue that Jordan had a better supporting cast for the majority of his career too. Lebron had that in Miami, but not really in Cleveland, definitely for the first…7 years of his career.

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#34

The differences in teammate quality and opposition quality are what elevates LBJ for me.

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#35

You cant win a general election on a left wing platform, as disproved by Jeremy corbyn when he won the last election

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#36

I think 25+ years ago footballers generally could get by on talent alone without the level of hard work and personal development that’s necessary now, but also that the way the game was played and referee’d made it more difficult for certain types of player to flourish. I reckon messi would have been a GOAT at any time but it’s impossible to know what type of player he would have had to become to get there.

#37

Yeah that’s a fair point. Football is so cut throat these days, what is it like less than 1% of academy kids actually make it in the top leagues, it’s definitely not easier to become a world class footballer these days imo

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#38

And yet the structure of the game is such that players like Beckham, Lampard and Gareth Barry can become the most decorated players in their generation despite not being naturally that gifted at anything.

#39

David Beckham is often used as an example of growth mindset/sheer effort/practise by educational experts - had to watch some video in a staff meeting the other day about it

But yeah it’s weird isn’t it

#40

In what way? Everything is set up perfectly for great players to play at their highest level today, which wasn’t the case in the past.

#41

The players now are better

#42
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#43

There is an element of that, I agree that Messi is GOAT, but I think he’s an outlier like bolt. Humans haven’t physically changed in the last 70 years, so theres no reason why innate ability would get better by generation.

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