#1888

I mean, no Labour leader has ever advocated smashing everything and eating the rich so he’s kinda right

#1889

Fixed :wink:

1 Like
#1890

I thought the article was really good. If you work from the principle that the ‘Big L left’ have been consistently owned by the right for the last 40 years, right up to today, which I think is hard to deny, it’s probably worth considering the wider approach. For the record I don’t think it’s arguing that the leaders have individually been the problem but rather that the issue is with the broader approach of the party that’s structured their efforts. The idea that Labour is absolutely petrified of deviating from its statist model, whilst also allowing a succession of right wing governments to run down the state seems hard to refute.

EDIT: posting the link for ease of access.

2 Likes
#1891

Tbf New Labour broke from this somewhat, and it’s clear Prescott in particular would’ve taken it further if not for the NE referendum loss.

(And the SNP are just as bad, but have the advantage of being able to distract attention away with other stuff)

Anyway looks like Clive Lewis’ campaign had the impact it needed and the party is likely to end up all aboard the constitutional questions express, choo choo

#1892

Yeah we should all join unions.

#1893

How fucked are flights going to be on Friday?

#1894

Absolutely, but that’s also part of the problem. Devolution of power hasn’t been a socialist principle, it’s been a liberal principle. It was a major plank of New Labour’s vision of the state but Osbourne also loved the idea. We don’t have a socialist response to localism.

On that subject, I’ll leave Keir’s argument and comparison to other candidates for someone else to discuss, maybe in the other thread. I liked it though.

And co-ops and credit unions, and campaigning for more autonomy for local government to borrow to invest.

2 Likes
#1895

As we have an exit agreement, presumably not at all.

3 Likes
#1896

Article is okay while it’s just rewording things other people have said, becomes incoherent as soon as he has to come up with his own stuff. So near, so John Harris.

#1897

This is alright although this bit seems a bit too close to the “the left lost because they’re too focused political correctness” sort of thing which I think I’ve been hearing for at least three years now.

Labour’s increasingly middle-class makeup, and the way the left’s focus on the politics of attitudes and behaviour sometimes teeters into shrill intolerance, not least online.

2 Likes
#1898

hyper focusing on the politics of attitudes and behaviour which produces ‘shrill intolerance’ is far more true of the centre these days lol.

3 Likes
#1899

@wewerewerewolvesonce @still_here you’re both right, the second half of the article is certainly weaker and veers into the obvious myopic, partisan traps. I should probably have highlighted it but it’s easy to gloss over at this point.

#1900

The people obsessed with this fictional battle with rabid lefties online are actually the people most enthralled by identity politics, it’s just their own completely mundane identity they’re endlessly worried about saving

6 Likes
#1901

Someone gimme links to a class breakdown of labour members and voters

#1902

Screenshot 2020-01-27 at 16.24.22

That compares to a population which is around 55% ABC1 nationally.

#1903

There’s this one that’s quoted in the article

#1904

Would also add that any critique along lines of identity according to the right\centre is seen as shutting down debate rather than the suggestion that potentially one particular perspective is not able to represent the totality of experience.

2 Likes
#1905

sorry but that john harris article is incoherent

#1906

Interesting singling out of trade union leaders. Labour has a Len McCluskey problem. This talk of voters in the Red Wall eventually coming ‘home’ to Labour is pure fantasy. They owe nothing to nobody.

I agree with him on Starmer and RLB – two deeply uninspiring candidates. Only Nandy seems to offer any energy, even if it is only a case of grandstanding from a trailing candidate. She’s my pick out the four (?) left

1 Like
#1907

I know Starmer’s had things to deal with lately, but I did find him alarmingly unconvincing on the radio this morning.

1 Like