Jordan Peterson


#41

I completely disagree. Have you listened to any of Under The Skin?


#42

Eh, I don’t entirely dislike Brand although I can understand why people would say this. I think he became aware of his lack of knowledge when it came to a lot of the things he initially talked about and as a result, he went back to uni to sort it out.

Not actually sure if he’s going to graduate mind.


#43

i was paying too much attention to scarlet johannson


#44

Can’t beat cowx2’s response to this.


#45

Euuuuuurgh


#46

is Brand, like Peterson just pushing his own self help book :confused:


#47

OK, this is bad. Plus the make up thing from the Vice interview, also bad.

He seems to have a very data-driven approach to the world, where he sees a behavior being correlated or uncorrelated with an outcome and then decides whether or not to engage in the behavior. Which makes sense, logically, but I get why it makes many people extremely uncomfortable, and it does for me also.

I think his message of personal responsibility is an interesting one. If you listen to Kendrick Lamar’s To Pimp A Butterfly, for example, this seems to land at a similar conclusion. You must find the sense of the individual in yourself, and create a vision for yourself that is best for you and the people you care about and your community, and live towards that vision. This can get close to respectability politics, I guess, but it’s hard for me to argue with that central message.


#48

The man gives a shit about the world. He also wants to live and make money.


#49

the operative word here is seems
the reality is he doesn’t and that’s why traditional gender bigotry and rape apology isn’t a mainstream form of psychotherapy


#50

Can you back that up with anything? I’m genuinely interested, and haven’t seen this in any of the criticism I’ve seen of him


#51

Sure. I mean I can’t be arsed to dig through literally all the mainstream forms of psychotherapy in the world but google’s there for you man.


#52

Also the approach of taking responsibility for things like depression, as arbitrary and fluid an illness as getting pneumonia or something and suggesting it’s solely up to the patient to take the reigns of their life is such antiquated ignorant bullshit it’s not even really worth talking about


#53

Mate, I need more help than this. What should I be googling? If it’s that easy to find data to debunk what he’s saying, then let’s get some of that in this thread.

I’ve genuinely searched and found a lot of theoretical discussion, but nothing disputing the data.


#54

Find me some “evidence” he has and I’ll be happy to find something disproving it?


#55

This was a really interesting read, thanks for sharing. I do not share Peterson’s world view at all, but I do find him worth listening to. It would be great to see someone like Haider debating Peterson. I would guess he picks the things he participates in carefully, as he seems very focused on the idea of “winning”, which is not really what academic debate is all about.

Ultimately Peterson is a devout Christian, and his views and research gravitate towards reinforcing very traditional Christian values. I suspect this is fairly sub-conscious - he probably thinks he is seeking out truth, but he will inevitably be very selective and limited in his thinking. That said, he raises points that are worthy of discussion and consideration - but our society only seems capable of hero worship or derision.


#56

Where has he suggested it’s solely up to the patient? I certainly haven’t seen him say this, and I doubt he has. If Cathy Newman had accused him of this, I think he’d have an easy time refuting it.

Taking personal responsibility, and taking practical steps to better your situation are strongly correlated with improving mental health, right?


#57

He doesn’t say that re: depression in anything I’ve watched of his. He talks about treating depression as an illness as a clinical psychologist. He has depression himself and has been on anti-depressants his whole life I think.


#58

He’s saying it’s up to the person to change their lifestyle to fit his narrow views of what success are. The fact the countries his mid-twentieth century capitalist conception of the working male have the highest rates of male suicide in the world probably fly in the face of this.

I also knew you’d trot out that someone has to do something to help their situation and of course that’s true in a.) some cases but not all b.) ignores all contextual conditions of an illness and c.) certainly isn’t always concluded with the kind of shit “bE AN aDUlT” lifestyle he’s peddling


#59

In the Joe Rogan interview, he places great emphasis on people creating their own definition of success. That’s the personal vision for you to strive for.


#60

OK, he claims that women are more agreeable than men (on average) and that agreeableness is correlated with lower wages.

This is just one example though. Feel free to debunk any of his “data-driven” claims