#40

What do you mean by ‘wet ends’?

#41

Yeah, that’s sort of it, but I don’t think you can really dismiss this thing entirely. Like Buffy really was completely unlike other stuff at the time. It’s fully of sexist things but equally it’s interesting to note the whole “not as bad as X” aspect which is how most concessions to progression in the world of cinema and TV have happened.

So, yeah, it’s not much, it shouldn’t be significant but it really was, which is also a shame. But I’d imagine Buffy actually did a lot for normalising the notion of women in action Sci-Fi purely from being so incredibly popular. (I mean I think Xena was pre-Buffy but I don’t think it ever really got near that popularity.)

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#43

Kind of, he has always been quite outspoken as a feminist, his work expresses that and has a largely female following, it is a little surprising isn’t it? I’m not surprised as I’ve read stuff about him in the passed, but this isn’t a clear cut ‘it is obvious from his work’ because it isn’t (I’ll accept the black widow point, his work isn’t perfect)

#44

https://community.drownedinsound.com/u/

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#46

I’ve never read an interview with him, obviously, and don’t know what he’s made since buffy, but that programme is very obviously made by a thigh-rubber of the highest order

#47

Ah right, just totally don’t associate buffy fans with comic book/sci-fi fans and those connotations personally

#48

Pretty patronising to its largely female fanbase I’d say
Edit: your post not the show

#49

His two follow-ups, Dollhouse and Firefly, both prominently featured tortured young women who perform martial arts.

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#50

bit patronising

#51

Dollhouse ffs

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#52

Dreary accuracy leads me to point out that wasn’t really true with Firefly but definitely when you include the Serenity movie, IIRC.

Lolhouse, though, is fair (I mean there were good ideas and bits in there and also great actors who weren’t Dusku, I suppose).

#53

They continued the show in comic book form after it finished.

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#54

Yeah I have read them, still don’t think whedon/buffy is deserving of the god of wet end sci-fi label because I think it, and it’s hard core fans are quite different from that demographic

#55

Eh? Whatabout all those empowered teenage girls in cheerleader outfits???

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#56

I’d probably say that there’s a large intersecting Venn diagram there. I certainly know people my age who got obsessed with it and weren’t into comics or Sci-Fi but in terms of those who got obsessed and then stayed into it, I feel that group is totally the sci-fi / comics nerd group.

I mean this was mainstream sci-fi stuff at a time when there really wasn’t much else out there. All we had were this, the limping end of Babylon 5 and Star Trek Voyager. I don’t know if it would have competed well in today’s climate but back then: big fish in small pond.

#58

Excellent use of the Fosbury flop in the last panel.

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#59

I suppose, I just don’t think fans of his marvel films are fans of his, more fans of the franchises, the studios know he is a safe pair of hands but doubt his name on the credits is an actual selling point for many people seeing those films. Anyway, I was just making the point as I’m quite a hardcore buffy fan, been to various events, read forums etc, it has broad appeal, probably a predominantly female following many of whom find it empowering, so I guess I thought the no surprise typical sci-fi nerd turns out to be a creep (which he is) a bit unrepresentative, but maybe that wasn’t what you were getting at

#60

actually very true with some users on here.
Not me though, though I am very sensitive to women especially and their feelings but just because I am a great guy in real life and IdontevenlikesexoranythingI’dratherjsutholdhandsadncatpuppygifs

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#61

I do think Buffy was pretty revolutionary for its time, because popular culture was still so poor in terms of female protagonists. Like most popular culture it’s aged incredibly badly because our media - while still veeeeery far from good - has moved on so much (and like someone said up thread, JW hasn’t evolved along with the audience in nearly 20 years).

As for being a creepster, I’ve kinda learned not to trust any community pillars or icons, especially if they are in marginalised scenes or groups. In my experience those who are the loudest and occupy the most space tend to be there because they have the most to hide, or they enjoy the power and benefits it gives them, rather than genuinely believing in equality or the cause. PWR BTTM being one particularly insidious public example. So it’s not a shock to me that he may have abused his position as Hollywood’s Shining Feminist Knight.

3 Likes
#62

… dinner?

1 Like