#2314

As a non Labour member, but probable supporter, it’s pretty difficult to see why I should vote for them tbh.

You can say ‘oh but Keith vaz is a shit and tom Watson is a shit and Williamson is a shit and yvette cooper is a shit and chuka and livingstone were shits and liz kendal is a shit and streeting is a shit but corbyn and Diane abbot are brilliant’, but… 2 or 3 people in the plp not being shits and a load of activists who support them regardless doesn’t make them seem an attractive proposition. It’s like the west ham of politics or something.

How do members/others plan to change this?

#2315

It’s a fucking mess.

The reason to vote for labour is that the only way to save the world is by socialism and they’re the only viable option to bring this to Britain

2 Likes
#2316

It’s just so toxic, isn’t it? The current Labour brand.

I’ve always voted Labour as it’s my ‘natural home’ but I just can’t vote for Labour at the moment. As someone with Jewish roots I just can’t. None of my friends can either. One of my best friends, who wasn’t into politics prior to Corbyn, thought he was the bees knees but now she has lost interest in the party because of how this has all been (mis)handled.

For what it’s worth we tend to vote Green now.

6 Likes
#2317

I mean, there’s a bit more than 2 or 3 in the PLP who aren’t shits - they just don’t get the airtime.

The party has put in motion changes that will allow a lot of the trash MPs to be de-selected (GOODBYE KATE HOEY, GOODBYE)

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/labour-mps-reselection-election_uk_5d111e62e4b0a39418673241

And I think you’re wrong to paint it as a personality cult around a few top figures - it’s a party that is more energised, more creative and with more ideas than it has had in about fifteen years. That’s what you’re voting for.

#2318

Learning that Watson, Hodge et al put together an all-evening How To Avoid Being Deselected seminar this week was absolute music to my ears.

1 Like
#2319

The PLP being riddled with a bunch of Blairite shites doesn’t change the fact that Labour is offering the only realistic opportunity to create a left-wing government in this country. The current enthusiasm among the party’s base does not live and die with Corbyn and the membership is putting in a lot of effort into trying to remove the MPs that are causing issues. If you want to see a socialist government in the UK then the best thing you can do is become a party member so you can have a vote on the internal party mechanics that make that happen.

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#2320

But I’m seeing in places that there’s the real possibility that he gets deselected, which would make this all the more head-scratching

#2321

Maybe so, but if that’s the case then presumably Jeremy will come out tomorrow and say “I tried to have him expelled, but Keith Vaz blocked it”. Would be very weird not to

#2322

Yeah it does seem like it’s always someone else’s fault. Everything can be explained away.

Also worth noting that the approach of “support the socialist party, turn a blind eye to any prejudices/discriminations it’s committing for now, and then we’ll fix it once we’re power” hasn’t really proved a very successful tactic in eradicating discrimination historically.

3 Likes
#2323

bip ling

#2324

I suppose it’s to much to hope for “listen to the members” being on the agenda?

#2325

Not to abdicate Corbyn from any responsibility for setting the tone of Labour’s attitude to these things (which I think he’s been poor at), but it would be an astonishing breach of ethics if Corbyn tried to intervene to get any member thrown out of the party. It’s simply not his role to interfere in the disciplinary process, which has been made independent of the Leader’s office for a reason.

#2326

^this. And the people hammering the leadership know this as well.

It lies with the NEC and the various disciplinary bodies within the party. Thankfully the likes of McNicol, who deliberately held up the process and progress, have been pushed out now.

#2327

Ok, that’s fair enough. But how then would you have him adequately “set the tone” as you suggest?

#2328

It’s not turning a blind eye, it’s acknowledging that things need to change but if Labour don’t get into power the Tories will make sure there’s no public services or anything else left and will carry on being total shitheads. Saying you want a Labour government to improve this country isn’t turning a blind eye to anything

#2329

It’s also worth pointing out again that while antisemitism does exist on the left it is far less prevalent that it is both in society in general and in the Tory party specifically. This obviously doesn’t make it acceptable however the party is working on eradicating it and the % rate of upheld complaints over antisemitism has increased dramatically since the left of the party has been in charge of the disciplinary process.

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#2330

I believe it was, below ‘Rulebook Loopholes’, ‘Crying to the Press Best Practice’ and ‘Big Piles of Coats’.

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#2331

almost every complaint is dismissed as the right wing press or centrist stooges making mountains out of molehills for political gain or outright peddling lies that are unrepresentative of the “reality” of the party. Tbh that is kind of telling people to “move on, nothing to see here”

2 Likes
#2332

This is a valid criticism of my use of the phrase “turn a blind eye”. What I meant by that is that historically supporters of some socialist movements have been asked to prioritise the goals of socialism and the success of the movement rather than addressing prejudice and discrimination within the movement (in particular wrt gender but also with race and other factors). Instead they’re told that they should wait until socialism has been achieved for the same reasons you cite above (not entirely unfairly), and that any issues will be resolved once power has been achieved. I’m not sure that historically that’s borne successful outcomes

#2333

You can do both at the same time, y’know. That’s what Labour’s in the process of doing.

1 Like